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Sometimes I want to give up, but of course I won't.
So many poems here are just personal experiences, better or worse written.
I want more!
I want poetry that moves and stirs and upsets people.
I want more from Neopoet and that means I expect everyone to really think about what they are saying and to who, not just post a personal reflection.
Write what you want, but I will criticize it. Mercilessly.
(c) Neopoet.com. No copyright is claimed by Neopoet to original member content.
Comments
Kailashana2
Thu, 2011-02-24 10:39
There's another viewpoint
There's another viewpoint here that you may not have considered for a long time, Jess....
How about FUCKING giving (writing) what you demand from others. I may not succeed all the time, but that's not from my (or Shirl's) not trying.
~A
weirdelf
Thu, 2011-02-24 20:13
Hey! 5 poems in 3 weeks
Hey! 5 poems in 3 weeks
may not be prolific, but I take time and thought over my work.
You can be prolific and brilliant, I can't. That's just the way it is.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
crypticbard
Thu, 2011-02-24 22:44
your point exactly!
The creative process is all unique and different - that's just the way it is.
That's not counting the variations in creativity and intellect in between.
The whole of life and human experience lies within the range of the artist's scope.
So it would be demeaning to discriminate the lower and middle roads from the high.
If everyone in their turn would only spew out masterpieces of the highest calibre
then it would be frightfully boring and all the classics and masters taken from curricula.
Of course we all should aim to be the best we can and improve our craft but to expect
each and every poem to be a magnum opus of content as well as form, then we are
crying for the moon. Too high an expectation results in a far greater fall of disappointment.
Take it with a grain of salt. Or we shall be hermit poets oblivious to the way of things and
useless to all and self.
__________________________________________________
'write on! let these words free.'
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-02-25 01:16
All I ask is
we do our best, and do our best to help each oter
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
crypticbard
Fri, 2011-02-25 01:22
:-)
Of course, that's a fair dinkum aspiration. Now to put our backs to it. Btw, I've looked into your comments on my other poem and have incorporated some changes. When you have the time and the nerve to face that one again, you are most welcome to it. TTFN. CB
__________________________________________________
'write on! let these words free.'
weirdelf
Thu, 2011-02-24 20:16
see my comment to Anna above
Hey! 5 poems in 3 weeks
may not be prolific, but I take time and thought over my work.
And I might add that I do good at other levels.
Look at how much the level of critique has improved lately.
I am not yet officially a Mentor because there is not yet a Mentoring program, but I still have 3 protegees and believe me that is a lot of commitment.
Oh and
http://new.neopoet.com/node/2465
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
weirdelf
Thu, 2011-02-24 20:19
"Compose a poem, Jess, that is not yours personally
And I will concur with all you say."
????
what do you mean?
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
weirdelf
Thu, 2011-02-24 11:55
it was written a long time ago
2002
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
KINGZOMBIE
Thu, 2011-02-24 12:49
Oh I see
I understand what your doing, but please don't forget that this is a workshop, a place for growing poets.I believe that we all are growing and learning no matter how long long we have been writing for.I notice that the words you use in this blog most are "I want", maybe you should worry less about what YOU want and be a bit less harsh and a tad more constructive with your critique, then maybe you will get what YOU want.
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"For what is it to die, But to stand in the sun and melt into the wind?"
weirdelf
Thu, 2011-02-24 18:22
I want a better poetry workshop
so sue me.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
KINGZOMBIE
Fri, 2011-02-25 02:32
Neopoet Nazi
You will not have a better poetry workshop by being a poetry nazi, you will only wind up having a select few poets and wind up killing the site of any kind of new blood in the process.I respect what your trying to do, but at least with me your critique was filled with more venom than actual constructive help.
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"For what is it to die, But to stand in the sun and melt into the wind?"
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-02-25 11:06
your problem
I have a list of people who have thanked me for helping me with their poetry, the word Nazi never mentioned once. And fuck you for the word nazi, it is ignorant if you know anything about me
Oh and the list is over 50 people but that dates back to the inception of Neopoet.
If you can't take the crit, go somewhere where they lie to you.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
KINGZOMBIE
Fri, 2011-02-25 04:54
Don't be silly
There is a huge difference between a constructive critique and a rude personal attack.You come off like some better than all bully.you may have helped others in the past but all can see is poison and bile in you.As i have read your posts, I see that there is no use trying to explain further, you just don't get it and never will.One last thing, stop taking yourself so seriously because when you do it is the fastest way to becoming a joke.
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"For what is it to die, But to stand in the sun and melt into the wind?"
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-02-25 05:11
don't be silly
I just gave you some critique, and it wasn't even that harsh.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
KINGZOMBIE
Fri, 2011-02-25 05:26
The critique wasn't harsh
The personal rip was a bit much though and as I think you can tell I don't take kindly to personal attacks no matter who you are.Its kind of sad that you don't see the difference between a critique and a thinly veiled attack.Your new comment on my "Zombie King" post was spot on.Thank you for reading and I'm looking forward to more constructive criticism from you.
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"For what is it to die, But to stand in the sun and melt into the wind?"
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-02-25 05:36
I was wrong.
I was wrong.
I mis-interpreted your poem. Didn't realise you would not spot the "Twin Peaks" reference and yes, there was a personal rip, though truly unintended.
My sincere apologies and I will copy and paste this comment into the poems comments.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
KINGZOMBIE
Fri, 2011-02-25 05:46
Apology Accepted
I do look forward to more constructive criticism:-)
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"For what is it to die, But to stand in the sun and melt into the wind?"
KINGZOMBIE
Fri, 2011-02-25 19:10
Its used more than once now
Look, my problem wasn't with your critique it was with the personal attack that was in it.I really feel like you just don't get it.So now your pissed that I called you the Neopoet Nazi, well after reading many of your posts and opinions now I have come to the understanding that you would like to shape things here in your image.I used the word nazi, meaning fascist.I have no problem with critique but you have a problem with people that are critical of your veiled personal attacks within your critique.I honestly don't care that you were here in the very beginning of neopoet, and I think since you like saying that so much that it must have gone directly to your head.This part here is very important so I will put it in caps so you just can't skip over it.CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM, is whats important.I also see that you keep touting the 50 people that you have helped in the past, heres a mind blower here, are you ready? Everybody is different, somethings that work for some people don't work for others.I sir am no pushover and you sir are the Neopoet Nazi.I do hope you get that inflated ego of your under control, I do appreciate the CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM that I have received from you, I suggest you let this thread go.I am not one to back down from some "CYBER BULLY".I also use to be on this site before the crash and I must say that the environment was far more friendly and less childish then.If there is any problem with this site now it is you and your ridiculous ideas about how to make this site better.This site is a workshop and no place for personal attacks, if you wish to help growing poets than be constructive with your critique, if not then shut the fuck up and let others help.So to sum it up, yes your the Neopoet Nazi, now be part of a solution, and not part of a problem.please remember it was you that attacked me first, if you don't like it maybe you should go to somewhere and have people keep lying to you because your kind of help is no help at all.I imagine you don't treat people in the real world the way you do here, I also imagine that your the type that has found power behind a computer screen.If you have a problem with what i have said here then have me kicked but I swear that I will have you kicked also for you personal attack that started all of this.I have a suggestion for you, you had better steer clear of me from this point on.
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"For what is it to die, But to stand in the sun and melt into the wind?"
weirdelf
Thu, 2011-02-24 18:25
Bee and others, I cop a lot
Bee and others, I cop a lot of public verbal flac for my opinions, so why do you suppose so many ask me to be their Mentors?
Whingers whinge loudly.
Activists are outspoken
and writers support each other, as I do constantly.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
Pixee
Thu, 2011-02-24 13:05
Hello weirdelf
I have always loved your work. This is a nice poem and unique. You are a real poet my friend. I hope you keep up the great work.
Poetry is the living soul of a writer!
Pixee
weirdelf
Tue, 2011-03-01 11:40
as above
as above
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-03-04 05:08
.
.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-02-25 02:07
Ian! Where did this vitriol come from?
I am totally at a loss. Is it something I said elsewhere? (If it was a Private Message, don't quote it here, respond there)
We have profound differences in our approach to Neopoet but I thought we had agreed to disagree and respect each other in friendship.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-02-25 04:46
It's a blog for fucks sake.
I can say what I want as long as it is not hate content, like racism, etc.
If you don't like it, don't respond.
Oh, and I don't have a fat arse, it's actually quite trim and cute.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-03-04 05:09
oh we all get discouraged and depressed occassionally
Remember this was a blog, a rant. Not a prospectus for Neopoet.
I don't even know why I bothered trying to explain myself to some of you except to try to help you see that for every bit of urging, complaining, whinging whatever I do, I also give valuable feedback, a lot of my time and commitment and it would be nice to be a little more appreciated than just considered a cranky old bastard.
Who else actually undertook the blog on critique? Who else has 3 protegees? (and believe me that is a huge commitment). Who else puts themselves on the front line for the improvement of Neopoet? (well, a lot of you, actually, and it is appreciated)
With respect for all my sibling poets, good, bad and ugly,
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
Kailashana2
Thu, 2011-02-24 21:02
Reaching into one's shadow
Reaching into one's shadow self enables one to improve their art.
Ian's turn. ;-)
~A
scribbler
Thu, 2011-02-24 22:42
hello Jess
Those who can.....do. Those who can't , teach. Perhaps it's time you decide which of these apply to you...........scribbler
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-02-25 01:35
Most of my poetry is not here, lost in the crash,
It's all backed up but with few exceptions will I not repost it. It has all been thoroughly workshopped. One re-post I did recently might be worth a wee glance- Watermana
http://new.neopoet.com/node/2465
My merits as a poet can be judged by you, most welcome, as I post new material.
I have been given reaons to believe I am reasonably talented at both writing and teaching.
That tired old saw "Those who can.....do. Those who can't , teach" has probably done more harm to the teaching profession and hence our children since that most heinous lie "original sin". I hope you had your tongue and not your foot firmly in your cheek.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
crypticbard
Fri, 2011-02-25 01:47
that almost sounds like
those who can, write and those who can't criticise.... ahem, critique.... ;-)
__________________________________________________
'write on! let these words free.'
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-02-25 01:53
no doubt it was suppposed to,
my reply remains the same.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
crypticbard
Fri, 2011-02-25 02:28
quite tenacious
and almost to a fault.... but I have observed you adjust your stance... back-paddling not beneath you when it is the right thing to do. That is noble and worthy of respect.
__________________________________________________
'write on! let these words free.'
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-02-25 02:34
I don't understand this comment.
When I am wrong I freely admit it and accept the consequences but scribblers comment "Those who can.....do. Those who can't , teach." was pretty unequivocal and I replied to it.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
crypticbard
Fri, 2011-02-25 02:43
You nailed it
My comment was not as clear as how you put it -
"When I am wrong I freely admit it and accept the consequence"
That is how I should have worded the previous comment.
__________________________________________________
'write on! let these words free.'
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-02-25 04:37
But I do.
so what is your point?
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
scribbler
Fri, 2011-02-25 10:30
lol
thought that would get your attention lmao! I was merely encouraging you to write more and blog less..............stan
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-02-25 10:56
Those who can.....do. Those who can't , teach.
that is the dumbest statement since "original sin:
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
Pugilist
Fri, 2011-02-25 11:03
Now I have to right a blog about this
Just so you know, it's about the concept, not an attack on you. I believe you will know the difference but I suspect some will decide otherwise.
---------------------------------------------------------
Jonathan Moore
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-02-25 04:57
thanks joe,
a sublime read.
Although not altogether relevant in this polemic.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-02-25 10:59
Blogs are blogs. Argue if you want to or just go away
I never pretended this was a Forum
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
lou
Mon, 2011-02-28 23:41
Jess
Why do you think it is your job to create a better Neo, and who says that it has to be run in the fashion you suggest. Isn't that up to Paul, Andrew etc? Yes you may have joined when when the site was first launched, but you are a member like anyone else.
You are entitled to an opinion, but you are not at liberty to force it on others and expect them to do as you want.
And if anyone wants you to be their mentor, that's fine but don't take it upon yourself to tell people what they should write. If they want to write about Britney Spears it isn't your job to say they can't , you are supposed to advise on form , structure, etc
At the end of the day a personal attack is not a critique, and therefore has no place here.
Lou
Stand tall, be proud to be who you are, give the world the finger!!!!
weirdelf
Tue, 2011-03-01 02:16
It is not my job to create a better Neopoet, Lou,
It is ALL our jobs. The only democratically run poetry site on the web, remember? I will certainly always struggle and strive to help keep it as good as it can be because of the law of entropy. Systems tend to a state of disorder, of which in many ways I approve, but total disorder, the dispersion of all energy creates a grey void.
Yes! By all means call me to order when you feel my crits are personal attacks, but you have been wrong about that at least once since I came back. I can post links to the comments in question if you like.
Yes! Please disagree with me on anything I think about the way Neopoet "should" be. But please remember I am in the habit of expressing my opinions strongly and publicly, not trying to be a NeoNazi. I have already shifted my position on the "social" aspects of the site.
And sometimes I do think content itself is open to criticism. That should lead to healthy debate rather than personal in-fighting, but hey, I admit I've fallen into that often enough. Content can be such an over-used form, for example love poetry, that it should be subjected to more serious inspection for cliche and sentimentality.
Let it all out!
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
lou
Tue, 2011-03-01 02:48
What's up
Feeling semi reasonable today lol
Lou
Stand tall, be proud to be who you are, give the world the finger!!!!
Pugilist
Tue, 2011-03-01 02:49
Dear God
Seriously folks, do what the hell you want.
If all you want to do is tell each other how pretty you are, do it, just leave me the fuck alone and do not whine at me whine I give critique or write blogs.
I will decide what Neopoet means to me, you decide what it means to you and it they are not compatible, I have this idea, let's not fucking interact with each other, we can just look at folks who are different with contempt and disdain and talk to people who agree with us other about how superior we are.
Let it the fuck go. If you do not like something that is written; poem, blog, forum post, comment, fucking ignore it.
God knows I continue to ignore 98% of everything on Neopoet and I gather I am ignored by a reciprocal amount. For me, that's fucking perfect.
---------------------------------------------------------
Jonathan Moore
weirdelf
Tue, 2011-03-01 04:23
Just can't do it
Don't you get the feeling Neopoet will just disappear into a morass of mediocrity if we each ignore those we disagree with?
Maybe you layed the irony on too thick, or I am being too thick, but I think this thing we call Neopoet is worth struggling for.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
Pugilist
Tue, 2011-03-01 09:29
Jess
The issue I am having is folks telling me that I must follow their process to participate in Neopoet.
I'm a contrary individual and I hate being told that I MUST do something a certain way if the way I do it works better for me.
So I will consume Neopoet the way it works to give me something back. And, quite honestly, if folks are not here to participate in the workshop I can't waste my time with them. I am not here to make friends, I am here to participate in a workshop and that's it.
I believe I have something to offer. If folks do not agree, no worries, I am not here to convince people I have the only answer, just to share my insight, experiences, and point of view. As with everyone else, I have limited time. If I waste that time on shit, all I have is shit.
I'm against that.
---------------------------------------------------------
Jonathan Moore
weirdelf
Tue, 2011-03-01 11:36
Well Jon, I personally wouldn't try and tell you
what process you must do, because most of the time it happens to agree with mine.
I guess that's why I haven't followed your blogs up until tonight, Not pissing in your pocket but frankly expected only to find petulant people arguing with you there.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
Barbara Writes
Fri, 2011-03-04 01:58
wow
Hey Jess,
There is never a dull moment for long with you around. Lol
(Hugs)
*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.
Neopoet Community
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-03-04 05:15
(hugs) back
I serve no ideology or dogma, but if I did it would be chaos. 8)
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
Tam the Chanter
Fri, 2011-03-04 04:57
admiration
I consider it almost absurd
That wee weirdelf, by changing some words,
Alters my mundane write
To some poetry, from shite
So this proves you CAN polish a turd
Keep on keeping on wee man
Ian
TIME FLIES LIKE AN ARROW, BUT FRUIT FLIES LIKE A BANANA
weirdelf
Fri, 2011-03-04 05:18
my thanks to you sir,
pity I can't get my own shit to shine, but it comes out sunburned.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
chevyvent
Tue, 2018-11-13 15:13
Why I Admire Weirdelf
The horse is out of its barn
Weirdelf in great as a poet
He gives one pause to think & reflect
I admire Weirdelf we should all strive to shine as him.
Of course the road is dangerous but here's a man that sticks out
Mario Vitale
weirdelf
Wed, 2018-11-14 10:14
.
.
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
Pugilist
Wed, 2018-12-12 07:43
Pointing Out The Obvious
I note the the most critical and, to be perfectly honest, whining, commentators are no longer around.
Granted, my activity is limited, but then, I only ever wanted to be left alone. The folks that were loudest about every way but their own being wrong and oppressive have scuttled off like the insects they are and my wish is they met to correct metaphoric heel.
I tire of these faux morality asshats who exist only to spread their judgement and disdain to the competent.
Another seven years has done nothing to mellow my mood against the aggressively inept.
Jess, I admire your tenacity. I admire your passion. I admire you ability to keep wading through the shit.
But, most of all, I admire your consistent moral position. These allows me to respect you even when I disagree with you because your position is not built of the shifting sands of petulant self interest.
---------------------------------------------------------
Jonathan Moore
weirdelf
Wed, 2018-12-12 08:18
Ta mate, in this we agree
Jon "I admire your tenacity. I admire your passion. I admire you ability to keep wading through the shit.
But, most of all, I admire your consistent moral position. These allow [sic] me to respect you even when I disagree with you because your position is not built of the shifting sands of petulant self interest."
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry