About workshops

Workshops on Neopoet are groups that meet for a certain period of time to focus on a certain aspect of poetry. Each workshop participant is asked to critique all the other poems submitted into a workshop. A workshop leader helps coordinate -- they set the agenda, give participants feedback on whether their submissions and critique are at they level expected of them, and after the workshop is over, give feedback to participants. 

To join a workshop, first find one that is of interest to you. Once you have found the right workshop (and verified that it is open -- you can find this out in the description below), you can apply to join the workshop.


Join the Neopoet online poetry workshop and community to improve as a writer, meet fellow poets, and showcase your work. Sign up, submit your poetry, and get started.

FROM PROSE TO POETRY

Status: 
Program description/goal: 

Description:First we'll discuss the difference between prose and poetry.We will then all write 3-4 paragraphs of simple prose. Each paragraph will have maximum of 5 lines. Can be on any subject. After all prose is submitted I'll pick which writer will use which prose post. He/she then will turn the assigned prose into a poem. May pick whatever type poetry you prefer. Poems will be posted on stream and open for comment. If time permits, I'll then assign each writer a different form to turn their poem into.Hopefully we'll all have fun turning other people's prompts into poetry.

Leader: Stan Holliday (scribbler)
Moderator(s): all participants

Objectives: To familiarize ourselves with the differences between simple prose and all forms of poetry and also realize where the beauty of poetry comes from.

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter:
subjects to be determined by participants

Length: 
14 days
Number of participants (limit): 
12 people
Skill level: 
Date: 
Saturday, April 21, 2012 to Saturday, May 5, 2012

Comments

Let's all witness the amazing magical power of turning simple prose into poetry. Learn the deep dark secretes required for such amazing transformations and marvel at others as they also perform acts of transmorgrification. Watch with laughter as that bumbler scribbler falls flat on his face in attempting to lead where none have gone before!!!!............If you want in just PM me or sign up here...........stan

author comment

I think I need this now. I'm in.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

I sign up here- I said yes to this, I hollered, as stan put it.

"acts of transmorgrification." "Jocular to change or transform into a different shape, esp a grotesque or bizarre one"
No wonder you are excited with this aim in view stan!!

Ann of Norwegian troll secrets

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

Gonna be great fun I'm sure
Glad to be a apart.

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

Thanks for joining up. Yes we'll begin on 21st. In the mean time everybody can start preparing their plain prose paragraphs so when time comes we'll be ready..................stan

author comment

As I see it (which may well be wrong) plain prose is such as one might read in the newspaper or write in a letter to a friend. Kinda like this was written, no flare and easily forgotten lol.........stan

author comment

and
when Stan ,
u have a few freer moments
do read my

We shall meet again

poem
coz we will some day

in those folded happy days of sunlight ,
snow
ruffled with darkness
still all times
warmth we ought to show

loved

Always good of you to drop in. I'm kinda snowed under with work in "real" world at moment but hope to catch up on my reading soon...........stan

author comment

With a bull dozer
please email ///sms location
which desErt under the sun
does it snow in May ???

loved

Unfortunately the only white around here if flowers lol...........stan

author comment

Any room for me ?
If so, I'M IN !! I think its something I need !

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Consider yourself in. Always good to see a new face appear. Please try to find time to go over syllabus this week. I'm in hopes this shop can maintain a fairly fast pace and the better prepared we all are the smoother things will run..Hmm.......that last statement was not aimed precisely at You, but at all who join in lol...........stan

author comment

And perhaps even a bit contentious (fingers crossed)

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I certainly hope to learn a bit from everybody.......oops my ulterior motive stands exposed lol. And I fully expect some controvery but only the healthy kind. Also it's better to cross fingers than eyes .............stan

author comment

Is there any set subject you want the prose on, or can I use an old piece of prose that I had written a while back? It is on a two people meeting and seperating at a bar. Let me know.

Thanks, Cat

*
When someone reads your work
And responds, please be courteous
And reply in kind, thanks.

As long as the submission is plain prose and not poetic prose and it fits within length guidelines it will be fine........stan

author comment

I'm glad you made the distinction between plain prose and poetic prose, or else I would have bungled it but good!

always, Cat

*
When someone reads your work
And responds, please be courteous
And reply in kind, thanks.

I kinda thought what you were going to post might be poetic prose lol..It would be entirely too easy to turn poetic prose into a poem wouldn't it?.................stan

author comment

Perhaps if you'd permit
I'd poemise it

loved

I have my subject all picked out. I will write about a house fire, from my past, that happened in the mid1970's. You will be most welcome to read it and comment on it after I have it posted. I welcome your comments :)

always, Cat

*
When someone reads your work
And responds, please be courteous
And reply in kind, thanks.

I just finishing writing my prose. I can't wait to post it. I see that prose is written in a straightforward language with paragraphs indented and poetry in figurative language with stanzas. Traditionally in poetry the first line in the stanza is capitalized with prose all lines are capitalized. Poetry is traditionally written with meter, with more adverbs and adjectives. Whereas prose is mostly written with a narrator.
Novels, srorytelling, newspaper articles etc are written in prose. Poetry can be narrative or not. Poetry is more of a Art form

orm.

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

The argument about what is prose and what is not is already happening.

Stan, you named eveyone moderators. May I suggest that that makes the moderators role meaningless. You need to choose people whose values and experience you trust and name them moderators.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

By doing this I hope to make clear that I expect all participant to moderate themselves. If the unexpected occurs and conflict arises I'll put a quick end to it myself..............stan

author comment

The moderators are meant not to help with disputes but to lighten your load running the workshop, especially with feedback. See my reasoning now?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

No need apologize. And yes I see your reasoning. But there's a catch 22 thing here. Most who have any experience in running a shop are either presently running a shop or probably worn out from winding one up. This is one reason I put short duration times on any shop I have or will run. However in the event that I Do require help due to something unexpected I can now call on whoever has been most involved for assistance. Sneaky old codger ain't I? lol. The person most involved will be both the one most up to date and the one most likely to be pleased to lend help. See My reasoning?.................stan

author comment

I follow your reasoning.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

not sure what you mean here .... prose consists of proper sentences as far as i understand
and poetry does not necessarily capitalise the beginning of every line
cheers
judy

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I said all lines of prose is capitized in my comment above. And i said. (traditionally) first lines In poetry is capitalized I did not say always. Yes li know prose is written with proper sentenses i didnt say it wasn't I just didn't say it.

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

by 'all lines of prose are capitalised'

lol and i also have to disagree with your inferrence that prose is not an art form....
cheers
judy

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

nothing else except proper names.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

In prose every proper sentence ends with punctuation
every proper sentence start with a cap.
In poetry its a choice. Prose is not poetry. But prose can be written poetically.
Art is art is art is art. Anything can be art I suppose.
what ever you difinition is to you. Poetry has more writing options in my opinion the senses, descriptives, forms etc etc

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

But I was just talking about prose.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Yes I agree with you.
But, I was responding to Judy.
She forces my otherwise dull brain sharp. Lol

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

I think I know where the confusion is here. Hang on a sec.
Barbara? You there?
I think maybe you meant all "sentences" start with a capital and by using the word "lines" it sounded like each physical line in the paragraph should be capitalized like in a poem. So, each "sentence" regardless of how they line up on the page will be capitalized.
I think you have workshop fever. We ran you ragged in "meters".

Did you get that Judy?
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Bring on the 21st!

Let's really talk about the very big difference, the gulf between a black hole and a supernova, the difference between prose and poetry!

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I have three paragraphs ready.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I have prepared a piece of prose which takes as it subject the difference between these two forms of human expression, I hope this fits the bill stan?

Ann.

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

Everybody needs to remember that these paragraphs will have to be turned into poetry by Somebody. And that the prose you submit will Not be the prose which you will be assigned. And it seems I'd better get off my duff, as I haven't written my prose yet lol..............stan

author comment

You are in. It will help to have somebody aboard better versed in technical aspects than this old word cruncher......stan PS just be sure to keep in mind this isn't the shark pool lol

author comment

nah, they're dolphins.
Hungry, psycopathic dolphins that have been abused by poets, sure, but just dolphins.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I took mine from a true story, about an old friend of mine. I woke up with the story in my head this morning. So I wrote it down in four paragraphs of five lines each. I tried to keep it factual. Can hardly wait to post it.

always, Cat

*
When someone reads your work
And responds, please be courteous
And reply in kind, thanks.

Is Anni not with us stan?
she said something about this theme lately:- In a quote from a comment to Jess
" I really need to get more knowledgable about the study of poetry, I am not even so clear as to what is prose (is prose so bad, I thought I understood the difference & enjoyed prose, or is it less desirable here at Neopoet?) & could use a brush-up on poetry structure & terminology in general. "

? Ann.

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

Let's see, there are Anne's,Anna, Ann all on site. Who is Anni? She is welcome to join if She wants as are all. And yes prose is enjoyable. Almost every book I've ever read is in prose as are newspaper articles and such. And the few short stories which have been posted here are also examples of prose. Prose is Not bad as long as it is not being passed off as some type poetry. In my opinion the thinnest line is the one between prose and poetic prose but there is also a lot of similarity in word usage between prose and some free verse I read (and written) here. And Now I better shut up while I still have a Few thoughts on the subject I haven't put forth lol..........stan

author comment

Sorry folk had a big week that last, am definitely putting aside a 1/2 hr spot for this workshop EVERY DAY for 2 weeks & am as excited as a jiggling jellyfish, though hoping to morph gracefully into one of those dolphins Jess mentions.... not the psychologically damaged ones though.

Jess, since you have done more direct discussion/workshop/online interaction here than me, would you mind suggesting a good time for Aus input? I suspect 11am to midday might be good, I know it wont matter critically, but it would be good to be around when others are.

Ta for the plug Ann, yes, indeed a goody for me this one!

Cheers all, see you Saturday (think we have to wait until Sunday Jess, they are a day behind us in the US at least, are they not?)

Definitely it seems this distincton is so inspiring, it cannot wait as Jess pointed out, enjoying the conversations etc. before it even starts!
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

We are not trying to meet at exactly the same time in chat and posting your responses and works every day or two or three should work for the workshop.

At one time Aussies held the balance of power in the AEC and the chat committee, the same could happen again and it is always worthwhile to shake Americans out of their geocentric ignorance,

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Yep, all good. Ta (Bit more succinct, am practising!)
A

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

I resemble that remark! But my ignorance is universal not geocentric lol...............stan

author comment

I wrote my prose about the moon. They way I wrote it, it may read like a list of full sentences. Maybe that how it should read huhhhh. Lol if not I'm sure Judyann will point it out. :-)

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

Although I tend to be lax about it, plain prose has a loose structue also. Each paragraph should be composed of sentences pertaining to a common idea and thus can be kind of compared to a stanza in poetry. And of course the entire body of a prose entry should also be at least loosely tied together just as the stanzas of a poem when put together lead to its completion. Of course a mere collection of sentences about the same subject can easily be compared to a list poem. So in short (too late lol) the form of the prose entry is not that important since almost any collection of prose can be converted to some type poetry...............stan

author comment

I have four paragraphs. All four talk about the moon affect on a particular subject in each paragraphs, for example his it affects the ocean and its inhabitants.

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

I'll have to settle and write my prose. My question, does it have to be interesting, stimulating, or it can be plain dull prose?

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

Entirely up to you. But remember that there will be somebody else who will have to turn it into poetry so it should be something which lends itself to that else Karma might get you lol............stan

author comment

Thanks for clarifying. Will now work on what comes to mind

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

OK so I'm getting that basically a prose is a story told in plain sentences . no greatly appreciated adjectives used .. just telling what happened as quickly an efficiently as possible .. right?

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Yes. Just think in terms of a newspaper article. Both what you wrote in your comment and this reply are examples of plain prose..........stan

author comment

the prose i have prepared to submit is pretty descriptive, but i still consider it prose as opposed to poetry
- does it have to be 'plain'?....
love judy

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Prose is descriptive as it describes what our subject is and what is does.

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

i know that honey - it is just what i have written is VERY descriptive with a lot of adjectives - and it seems this is not what stan wants
love judu

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

The purpose of this shop is going to be getting people to get used to taking everyday thoughts and turn them into poetry. For most people thought occurs as plain prose and beside what you describe is often actually poetic prose which in my understanding is already a form of poetry. Now many people consider Tolkien's Lord Of The Rings trilogy to be mild poetic prose so the dividing line between prose and poetic prose is pretty blurry.But for this shop's purpose I would prefer the prose entry be fairly plain so as to emphasize the difference between it and the poetry it will be changed into......................stan PS Barbara is correct in her following remark as Some description is inherent in almost all writing. But try to leave plenty of room for improvement to any prose so the writer who is assigned your prose can have more freedom in transforming it

author comment

i can't help writing a lot of descritive,,,,l think you will have to take what i have written - lol - sorry, my son is visiting for the next few days and i won't have much time to do anything more... so if it is too descriptive i am sorry ...
love judy

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

it would be just as hard to turn poetic (descriptive) prose into poetry.... (lol imho) .... there is a big difference
xxxx

and i thought the purpose of the shop was to differentiate betwwen the two :)

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

But by definition isn't poetic prose a Type of poetry? That would be about the same as turning a Haiku into free verse or metered poetry wouldn't it?.............stan

author comment

used the wrong word there
but descriptive...
even in prose one doesn't say the 'sun came up and the sunrise was lovely' - surely that's not what you want...??
love judy
xxxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

All written forms of communication are by need descriptive to an extent. Let's try to avoid something like " As the sun first peeked above the wooded horizon it sent saffron spears of light through the frosted dawn." but to say "the sun rose" Would be a bit plainer than required lol............stan

author comment

i think mine is a little too descriptive for your wants
but, i'm sorry , i haven't time to alter it - my son is visiting and i have little free time
i'll submit what i have and we can use it or not - is that ok?
love judy

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Don't lose any sleep over it, you'll just make things easier for somebody and it's too far a swim for me to go there and smack you with a ruler lol.Spend as much time with son as you can and jump in when able..........stan

author comment

There has been a fair amount of discussion in threads lately about whether poems are poetry or poetic prose and what the difference is. I know many of us would be interested in and benefit from exploring this gray area.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Not to worry Jess, the hard part is yet to come..............stan

author comment

Yay, room for one more... Ok for me to join this one Stan? I'll pm you just in case... Sounds great!

Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

You're in..........stan

author comment

You will I am sure be more than welcome, your input here will be good.

It looks as though you already write about the two aspects of literature, so I'll send some of mine:-

From the web I like this don't you? :-
"When you write in prose, you cook the rice. When you write poetry, you turn rice into rice wine. Cooked rice doesn't change its shape, but rice wine changes both in quality and shape. Cooked rice makes one full so one can live out one's life span . . . wine, on the other hand, makes one drunk, makes the sad happy, and the happy sad. Its effect is sublimely beyond explanation." - Wu Qiao

Nordic cloud:-
Hope you forgive the length?
POETRY OR PROSE WORKSHOP M. Ann Waddicor 17th April 2012.

Mans idea in the first place of creating two collections of letters denoting the words poetry and prose in the first place, are only like any other theory of science or metaphysics-religions not absolutes; we tend, as human beings, to fix or immortalise our ideas that spring from our nature, our existence, and call it sacrosanct, when they are not anything more than our current manner of describing what life is. 

For a poem to be a poem, we say it is shorter than prose; and yet, when Shakespeare tackles rhyme and gives us tomes to express one story, it is of the longest type of poetry.

What we really mean is, does it have the elements of elevated thought made saturated into an essence of meaning, something like a potent poison or elixir that touches, or strikes a chord of great recognition, or disgust, in a flash of lightening, or a smooth soft ride on the surface of a mirror that, like a lake, has hidden depths.

We want something beyond reality, and at the same time using the palette of reality, with all its brilliant and subtle colours to awake our awareness of man, of nature, of our existence, our birth and death, our needs, desires, and desperation, all expressed in a poem reduced to a readable length, synthesised experiences spelled out in what can be called, a work of art.

Where Prose can spread its wings and explore the whole in a more leisurely manner, and although occasionally reaching the rich pinnacles of lofty poetry, is aimed at giving us a plot that has time stretched out, to be more like our lives, containing mundane expressions of scenes and happenings that in poetry would be boring, but in prose keeping us in the picture with narrative, and containing so many aspects of human communication, that as a poem, it would be a cumbersome tome indeed; as the difference between the succinct detailed beautiful little water colour paintings of Jules Bissier, and the frescoes of the Sistine Chapel differ in expression, the one immediately grasped visually, where the other takes our making an effort to see the whole.

The extremes in poetry itself are the grand epics, like the plays of Shakespeare, or Dante, compared to the Japanese haiku, that can be expressed in the fewest words each making a whole story in each its own manner.

A word alone can be a poem, as it awakes our experiences that heighten our perception of it.

Many words tumbling through out minds in excited rhythm can tear is from where we are, into a vortex of dream - like richness that, as the dance of a leaf leaving the tree performs, meeting every element of experience sharpened to an image, apparent and intense, and all this is created in our mind's eye, touching our whole being mentally and physically, caused by these extraordinary, ordinary tools called words; groups of letters juxtaposed, sound patterns, all joining the cacophony of man's philosophical and scientific musings on what life is all about.
_______________

My letters through the years have been what I call prose and yet those receiving my letters described them as poetry. It wasn't until I decided to write some poetry needing one or two(!) from myself in an anthology of my families poems, that I began in earnest to write what is called poetry. These took the form of the traditional manner of writing what is recognised by all as poetry. eg

The rhyme those little patterns of sound we are first introduced to as children in nursery rhymes. These trigger off the enjoyment of music dance sound patterns in the child, ever loving rhythm from all natural movement. They create their own rhyme patterns, sometimes repeating them ad infinitum, becoming a drone, a continuum, that can be annoying to adults but to the meditating guru a blessing.
All around us are these sound patterns in nature with for instance the birds in man's creations in the machine not to mention the gossiping neighbours!!
a
All this entertains taints and disgusts us, we know then that we are alive, we object, we cry we laugh we create poems in the same manner enjoying the fact that we as individuals as a society have a voice take part.
_________

The word Poetry immediately conjures up in the mind something made beautiful, made more real than real, touching the imagination, picturing the world in rainbow colours, sensitive to nature and man's nature, enhancing all in an aura -like beautiful music. This can be one aspect of it, as there are so many types of poetry describing the whole spectrum of existence. It all depends on the era and fashions of the time in which one lives.

The poetry of the 1800's is sometimes so overloaded with romantic notions, that its dripping sentimentality appals the modern mind. To be whole a poem can have all aspects of the genre, but this all depends on the writer of them, their depth of thought, their insight and understanding, their own freedom from, or binding to, the isms and ideas of man, gods and daemons, ideals coupled with the make up of our individual brains.

End of my writing.
_____________________________________________________________________
From the web:-

NOTES: Prose and poetry writing have different characteristics and approaches.

1. Prose has sentences arranged in paragraphs. The information presented is more pragmatic, many times, than in poetry. Sentences in paragraphs of prose follow each other, one after the other. The first word of each sentence is capitalized. Punctuation for both prose and poetry is the same. The first line of each paragraph is indented. The language of prose is straight forward, with less figurative language than poetry.

2. Poetry has a different form than prose. The appearance of poetry on the page or computer screen is different, unique. Where prose has paragraphs, poetry has stanzas. Where prose has sentences in a paragraph coming one after another, poetry divides into shorter lines, with a phrase or group of words that join together on each line. In traditional poetry, the first word of each line is capitalized. Some modern versions of poetry have only the first word of each sentence capitalized as in prose. Indenting of lines depends on where the writer desires to have indenting. Poetry is created with figurative language such as poetic devices.

And some more I know some don't bother to look at the net sh!
WIK
Poetry (from the Latin poeta, a poet) is a form of literary art in which language is used for its aesthetic and evocative qualities in addition to, or in lieu of, its apparent meaning.

Prose is the most typical form of language. The English word 'prose' is derived from the Latin prōsa, which literally translates as 'straight forward.'
-_______
Poetry
1) the art of rhythmical composition, written or spoken, for exciting pleasure by beautiful imaginative, or elevated thoughts.
2) Literary work in metrical form; verse.
Poetry is language spoken or written according to some pattern of recurrence that emphasises relationships between words on the basis of sound as well as meaning. This pattern is almost always a rhythm or metre (regular pattern of sound units). This pattern may be supplemented by ornamentation such as rhyme or alliteration or both.

Prose
noun
1. the ordinary form of spoken or written language, without metrical structure, as distinguished from poetry or verse.
2. matter-of-fact, commonplace, or dull expression, quality, discourse, etc.
Prose is the form of written language that is not organised according to formal patterns of verse. It may have some sort of rhythm and some devices of repetition and balance, but these are not governed by regularly sustained formal arrangement. The significant unit is the sentence, not the line. Hence it is represented without line breaks in writing.

Love to all always Ann.

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

Just could't wait for the shop to start Huh? Having now used up all your words it's goona be interesting to see what is left for later lmao..........stan

author comment

I've always got more stan, I never run out of them,,,,for some reason, Not sure why, they love to formulate and re-formulate ideas and thoughts so there's no limit. Lucky that way, but not all is good, probably not much who knows. I just love writing whether it is prose or poetry doesn't really matter, each has its own flow of thought.

You lot were talking about the subject from off the top of your heads without looking at the definitions available, I felt, that's why I decided to put it on here as a kind of spring-board to the workshop. I am thorough even though I appear whimsical possibly sometimes, I like to make something with aesthetic quality.

Smile-Ann.

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

Thanks my dear & generous Ann... wow, you have composed a workshop all your own in that long lot of info. You are such a lake of enthusiasm my friend, wonderful... You have saved me online time, that's for certain, I was about to go & troll the net to see what wiki & various dictionaries had to say of the distinctions, just out of interest.

I look forward to your input as always
xxx
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

I see we've been reading the same website. When I write my idea about prose and poetry. I research it first before posting. Still I write it wrong sometimes. :-)

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

I see we've been reading the same website. When I write my idea about prose and poetry. I research it first before posting. Still I write it wrong sometimes. :-)

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

demeanour suggests. The whole of that very long piece you posted amounted to pluralism, that whatever anyone believes is true. It makes me cranky.

We are here to work together to find agreeable ways to give critique and write poetry understanding the difference between poetry and prose. It helps no-one to suggest that intent is meaning.

If we work hard at this workshop we will be more clear about the poetic values of our work and how to crit the non-poetic values of others.

By the way, I bet you $3.50 that very few people beside me read your long piece end to end. Most poets have Bipolar and/or ADHD and/or are lazy and don't read long comments. I've proved it over and over again on Neopoet. Cloudthings, Dawningdaytripper and Magics waste most of their words.

Keep your arguments short and succinct.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I for one don't read long comments. I thought I was lazy, but in my attempts to read long anything, I tend to fall asleep or spazz completely out. Most times I though I find myself rereading so many times for clarity I simply give up from mental exhaustion, take a break then come later to shorter poems and comments.

So I'll do my best here

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

I never wasted a word
I did not mean
I never wasted
A mean word

How is that for prose for ya

LOL all in caps!!

*****************************

Stan I just had to intercept as I read
Good luck to all in the workshop

Now I am back to making money
As I learn my new trade..smiles

Magics Mona

Most of your verbiage is sewing circle meaninglessness.

Neopoet would benefit a lot from you just shutting up.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Most of that Jess is from the net, The beginning bits were
me thinking around the subject, and I don't mind if
no one bothers to read it, I wanted to write it and that's that.

Manipulative- like you when I state things I find I mean what I say,
but no one has to, in any way, agree with what I day, as I said above,
I like to wander round and through things in my own way-that's
my way of enjoying finding out things, things that are in my head
hidden until they get written out.

Otherwise, if I have misunderstood the meaning you give
manipulative in this instance, please elaborate for me.
I am willing to hear, in fact keen to.

Not in the least innocent!!! Ann.

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

Let me put it more succinctly. By presenting so many diverse arguments so verbosely the argument becomes meaningless.

Rather than paste in arguments, lets engage in a dialogue, not bludgeon each other with a wall of words.

With respect for your intelligent research and clear attempt to help, lets talk about what poetry and prose mean to each other personally.

And keep it short.
sincerely,

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Arguments is not a word that springs to mind when I write what I write, I am trying to find out what I think by stating what my thoughts on the subject are, they don't in any way have to be taken as facts, or even correct, I think around it all in my own way, if it says something relevant, okay, if not don't bother to read it.

Short for short's sake...hm, not sure about that. I try not to say it in a complicated manner.

Everyone, nobody HAS to read what I write, I only throw it out in case ot might be of interest to others. No pressure.

I am enjoying myself that's all.
I am not in the least worried about your remarks, I welcome honest feedback, and thank you for giving me yours Jess. :)

Ann

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

Well here we go! Prose and poetry. Before we try turning one into the other I guess we need to define what each is. Now for an indepth technical definition just look at the previous post by Nordic cloud which is excellent.

But being of simple mind I like my definitions short and simple also. So in my opinion they can be defined as follows :
PROSE - Writing in the manner of normal conversation or communication with the main aim being to convey facts.

POETRY - Writing so as to convey imagery and/or emotions.

Now I'm aware there's little difference between well written prose and bland poetry, but for now let's just discuss what each means to us.
Later in the discussion we can enter those gray areas between prose and poetry and even where the different forms of poetry overlap.

So let'sget Your ideas posted and let the melee begin !............stan

author comment

While ya'll are getting your thoughts together on differences between prose and poetry, you can go ahead and post your prose writes so I can start thinking about who will be assign which.............stan BTW I have a bit of a stomach bug so I;ll be in and out of here (and throne room lol) this evening.................

author comment

Last thing 1st. Somebody will be assigned this just as will all other prose submissions made in this shop. The reason behind me assigning each person's prose to another is to keep everybody from choosing the same 3-4 prose posts to change to poetry. Now as to your idea of poetry, you really are vague as to what you think good poetry is. Maybe you could think about it a bit more then return later..........but your prose definition is spot on in my opinion.......stan

author comment

The Fire

Sherry once lived above me in a Duplex apartment
with her boyfriend, Steve, a scoundrel and thief
he brutalized and demeaned her in many ways
all which we heard quite well through our ceiling
when things got bad, she would knock at my door

They were about to move into another building soon
and Sherry asked if she could stay with me instead
My boyfriend at that time was against this so she left
Steve had an enemy whom he had cheated badly
in a bizarre, criminal deal of illicit drugs

One night, at their new place, this enemy found an open window
he climbed in with a full can of gasoline
he splashed it around the living room furniture
then, climbed back out to safety before lighting the fire
they were asleep in their bedroom when their puppy began to howl

Steve and Sherry awoke to a room full of smoke
they made it through the blazing living room and out the door
Sherry went back in to find her puppy, Princess, as Steve ran
later, the firemen found her dead from smoke inhalation
she was two feet from the puppy who had been her only comfort

*
When someone reads your work
And responds, please be courteous
And reply in kind, thanks.

Thanks. Part of the purpose of this shop is telling the difference between prose and poetry. You know, one major difference is that prose is punctuated and broken into sentences. Your having left out all punctuation renders this as blank verse and thus already a type of poem. You need to leave a bit more for the writer who is assigned this to do lol. I would appreciate it if you'd edit this with sentence breaks and normal punctuation as if you were writing a letter to a friend. Also join on in the discussion when you're able.........stan

author comment

Sherry once lived above me in a Duplex apartment with her boyfriend, Steve, a scoundrel and thief. He brutalized and demeaned her in many ways, all of which we heard quite well through our ceiling. When things got bad, she would knock at my door.

They were about to move into another building, soon. Sherry asked if she could stay with me, instead. My boyfriend at that time was against this, so she left. Steve had an enemy whom he had cheated badly in a bizarre, criminal deal of illicit drugs. One night, at their new place, this enemy found an open window. He climbed in with a full can of gasoline. He splashed its contents on the living room furniture then, climbing back out to safety, he lit the gasoline.

They were asleep in their bedroom when their puppy began to howl. Steve and Sherry awoke to a room full of smoke. They made it through the blazing living room and out the door, but Sherry went back in to find her puppy, Princess, while Steve continue out of the burning building.

Later, the firemen found her dead from smoke inhalation. She was two feet from the puppy who had been her only comfort.

*
When someone reads your work
And responds, please be courteous
And reply in kind, thanks.

Dearest Cat
Hope I haven't hacked up your story too much Cat, it was more of a challenge than I thought it would be to do this process, I tried to stay true to the story, but to make sure it wasn't just prose I had to colour it a bit... I do hope the essence has reached you without too much deviation? Cheers
Anni xx

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

Good Job!!!

always, Cat

*
When someone reads your work
And responds, please be courteous
And reply in kind, thanks.

I gotta work in the morning so I gotta hit the hay lol. Feel free to keep discussion going and posting your prose. I'll check back in the morning before work................stan

author comment

but not so flowery -sorry

Spring is fragile, easily banished by the south wind. Despite the presage of warmer and sunnier days to come with the welcome northerly breeze of yesterday, a cold, wintry wind blew. Today, when the sun rose from the desert in the east and slowly brightened it, the morning sky would be covered from horizon to horizon with a blanket of multi-coloured fluffy cloud that looks just like wool on a sheep.

On a day like this was going to be, the eastern horizon appears ablaze as the great red ball's first new light is poured into the flock in the sky. The sheep overhead perform a slow kaleidoscope of colours as Earth's special star rises higher and morphs through orange to yellow, by which time the multifaceted reflection of many shades has blended to a milky grey.

The day remains grey. and the cool-cold wind blows continuously. Time slows and an atmosphere of waiting prevails. Even the birds hush. After a premature deepening, and an even greater conflagration in the western clouds than had burned the morning sky, the colours of sunset bring an early dark to an already dull day.

This type of day seems to be the universe's way of helping us to come into summer gently. It is hard to rise from the winter cocoon of home with its warm comfortable clothes, fires and good books. By offering justification every now and then, as outdoor summer approaches, to return to a cosy day inside, she helps us to wean ourselves slowly from the long hours of wrapped-up security.

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Must still be half asleep as the "cold south wind" tripped me until I remembered the NORTH winds bring warmth down yonder lol. Thanks for the post and looking forward to hearing your ideas on prose-poetry...........stan

author comment

This was a most beautiful picture that took me into the sky to experience all the colours of the universe as a day, some parts made me squeal with delight.
annanya.

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

A sure test of whether a poem is actually prose is to remove the line breaks and format it as paragraphs. It works every time. It may still contain poetic qualities of imagery, but will read as prose. Some poetic qualities un-likely to appear are rhyme, alliteration and regular meter.

Stan do we post our prose in this thread or as a Workshop poem?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Hmm..... that just might work. But it seems a lot of free verse would then be prose. And post your prose here for now. When it gets converted to poetry we're going to post the prose with the poem below it on stream. I think posting prose only on stream would confuse people not in shop...........stan

author comment

the difference between prose and poetry becomes an argument only if the prose is written as poetry
one cannot call full paragraphs and sentences poetry

characteristally poetry used to use a certain amount of rhythm, rhyme and form
free form does not necessarily do so
therefore the problem arises in the use of free form more than anything..
- so what we (i) am trying to discover is when a poem attempted in free form crosses this line and becomes prose.......

lol - if that makes sense
cheers
judy

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Almost sound like saying "I don't know art but I know what I like." lol. In my opinion the best of freeform (or free verse) Still contains a bit of rhythm and even a rhyme now and then for emphasis. Might well be it's easier to tell when frreform is actually prose than when prose is actually poetic prose. Many would suggest your prose entry above is at least on the verge of being poetic prose lol. I still recall the first poetic prose I ever read here. Having no idea what it was My comment to the author implied that a short story should be labeled as such. Boy! did I get quickly corrected lmao!. Robert Frost once said writing free verse is like playing tennis without a net. But the important part of what he said is he didn't say without bounds markers or any other rules lol...............stan

author comment

i thought the purpose of this workshop was to differentiate poetic prose from poetry .... why are we wasting our time with plain prose ??
cheers
judy

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

in stage 2

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

The shop Title is Prose to Poetry not poetic prose to poetry. Poetic prose to poetry might as well be free verse to western classic of Haiku. We are going to use the prose submissions as prompts for writing poetry and thus distinguish the difference betwwen the two. We are "wasting" our time on prose to point out how often some poetry is often no more than prose broken into verse. I will probably start assigning prose posts to folks tomorrow to be turned into poetry. It is my hope that the changing process and commentary will move rapidly enough to also allow time for us to all change from one form of poetry to another also. I don't think poetic prose was even mentioned in the syllabus. ..............stan

author comment

was the discussions between people as to whether particular writes were poetry or prose
lol -we all know that plain prose doesn't get confused with poetry :)

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

What initiated it was the thought that writing creatively was done in both prose and poetry. This shop is about exploring the differences and similarities between the two by converting one to the other. ...........I also hope to explore the gray areas between the forms which exist such as the overlap between plain prose and free verse and between poetic prose and blank verse. It is my opinion that the better we understand the subtle differences the better we will be able to write in our preferred forms. ie:
Initiation was by thought
that creative writing
prose or poetic
is rife
...with gray and overlapping
........................................areas

So that should we choose to scribe in
.free verse
..blank verse
..prose whether or not poetic
...Haiku
.....or classic rhyme
we will do best
when best informed.......................so is this prose or free verse? And what makes it poetry if it IS free verse........................................stan

author comment

this is prose
lol - and i am here to find out why this is so according to the theorists
but i know how i read it...
there is no poetic value to this write for me
cheers xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

That's where I think the clarification might need to be official that actually we are dealing with 3 categories, not just Prose & Poetry, but POETRY, POETIC PROSE (as I think your example displays well Stan) & PLAIN PROSE, & we are technically excluding working with POETIC PROSE here, but it is critical to accept as a separate element because, until now, I just thought prose was poetic prose & PLAIN prose to me was just stuff that wasn't poetry related... communication other than in an artistic realm... Does this help?

Anni (getting broke from all the 2 bob I'm tossing in now!)

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

anni xx - i remain confused as to why bother with plain prose... to me it is not the problem - poetic prose and poetry written in free form is my problem
lol - prose written in rhyme and rhythm is perhaps sometimes labelled just bad poetry, but one see the distinction...

anyway
scribbles
i have pulled this one from my archives - a book i am in the process of writing ... does it suit the purpose better?
(sorry, all i have had time to do)

From one heartbeat to the next, one can be washed to the summit of a hill and shown the horizon of a new existence. With Carter's death last month, his estate passed to me and, reluctant to throw out what might have been papers to treasure for posterity, I began going through his files today. Then I found the notebook. It shook me to the core. What has my mind spinning even more is the memory of an entry Pixie's diary contains, written on that same day, which had not made sense to me until now. Even if it still doesn't really make total sense at least some piece to the puzzle has been placed.

I really should give up the stinking habit. Still I light the cigarette as I read a little more of the journal that has brought these memories so vividly to mind. Just remembering the terrible night my little brother died sends me fumbling for the little white coffin nail called tobacco. Mum and Dad were never quite the same after that - neither with us girls nor each other. More Mum ... Dad tried for many years to piece together the shattered eggshell that was our parent, but perhaps some things sometimes can never mend. And my sisters? They've paid their dues to Jacob in their own way, just as I have in mine, I guess.

I think Carter was the most affected (outside of the family, that is). He did love Jake very much, but there always seemed to be more to it, and now I know it seems to have evolved from some incident that happened the day before. Both Pixie and Carter referred to it in their diaries - Carter beginning his first ever diary on that day. It seems so far-fetched that I still need to think more on it before I decide what I am going to believe.

All I really know is that our family fractured on that terrible, blurred, starry September night, and it was Carter Evans who held it together, washed and dressed the wounds and eventually mended it - as best it could be mended while a part remained forever missing.

cheeers
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Phew, I have to pull myself together after that amazing read Judy... you are very good with words my friend... sigh...
Reaction to your very moving prose here aside (which in my heart is still leaning slightly towards poetic, I think there are just people who write poetically most of the time, & that may the problem you are having, wonderful, if you ask me... you know I've just realised another distinction I had made unconsciously about what made prose differ from "everyday writing"... I realise I felt something was more of a "poem" or "poetic prose" if it was able to move me, transport me, effect my thought in that beautiful fluid space that poetry does.... sorry, it's vague & emotive & probably doesn't help, but that was what I have felt about poetry quietly all these years) May I just say this simple thing... let go of fighting for the poetic prose thing, can we just sit with the idea that here, for this workshop, poetic prose can be taken as POETRY then, eliminating the need to worry about it, & go with the fact that some parameters need to be set up for any workshop, this one has been set to use Non-poetic prose to begin with, so that we can more readily see the distinction between it & the poetry it will be transformed into... Later perhaps we can look at transforming or comparing poetic prose into/with poetry (I always saw them as valid versions of each other & still wonder if the lines are usually pretty blurred in most minds... open to discussion re this though, which is the point really), but I do like Jess' version of the distinction posted here way above, I'll find it & repost, hoping he wont mind.

As I see it, if another perspective helps, you have trouble because you want to be a step ahead of the starting point (that being, "prose" as sentences that are not poetic ), when you are keen to get crunching on the bones of making distinctions between (what I think Stan defines as) "poetic prose", & "poetry". Can I guess that your aim comes partly from the conversation where Jess suggested one of my works was more like prose than poetry, to which I confessed that I was then uncertain that my concept of prose was matching that of Neo members generally... hence for us the exploration from that point might be more focussed on the difference between the kind of "poetry" I had submitted & whether it was "Prose" or "Poetry"... & hence, what is the definition & difference etc? Where-as, Stan may not be privy to that thread & just want to explore creating poetry from Plain prose writing... because you have to begin somewhere & that is the first step? This is why I feel the 3 distinctions are important here.

Perhaps you & I can do extra curricular later when you have more time, & really get some more refined definitions (if they don't come out here, which they may well) of what is prose & what is poetry & how they differ... I think Jess may suspect me of being wishy washy about it, but I DO think it will be a relatively illusive definition in reality, bit like your comments with Stan above, where he remarks that it sounds like that adage about not knowing what art is, but knowing what you like?

Does any of this come home to you.... or anyone?

Anni xx

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

you are quite correct in you thinking that our
'aim comes partly from the conversation where Jess suggested one of my works was more like prose than poetry, to which I confessed that I was then uncertain that my concept of prose was matching that of Neo members generally... hence for us the exploration from that point might be more focussed on the difference between the kind of "poetry" I had submitted & whether it was "Prose" or "Poetry"... & hence, what is the definition & difference etc? Where-as, Stan may not be privy to that thread ...'

- i have to say that stan WAS privvy to that thread and it is where, as far as i am concerned, the idea for the workshop was born ... thus i don't really think i am trying to 'jump' class
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Apols Judy, I didn't mean to suggest you were in the wrong, just, having lead many a class on various things I know sometimes the leader needs to take a broader perspective, or take a step back from the point that may have initiated further discussion in order to be thorough & reach all students, & to maintain the integrity of the subject etc.. I thought I might be seeing from BOTH perspectives & that might help, but I fear I might have just frustrated you further. I suspect that Stan will get to exploring the element close to that particular thread later, he is just setting the stage for now.

For me there is learning in it at any level, I do hope you can bare with us until we get to the level that you are keen to explore, I am keen to get there also.

In any case, I learn just from your perspectives (doesn't help you much, sorry!). Not sure Stan remembers that thread anyway, but in the end it's a process, & he is just setting up the starting point. Your writing is beautiful, (& perhaps quite effortlessly poetic, regardless, it will be a pleasure to work with I feel sure), a wonderful work to be transforming, would it be enough that you are a strong contributor here just at this point? I hope so, I feel you have so much to offer & don't want to lose you because you see no point in beginning at a point that does not address what you see as the point worthy of exploration, at this stage anyway.

Let it play out & enjoy your visitor would be my humble plea, I admit that I am a bit attached to you already (what a suck, eh?!) & would be sad if this was not a pleasure for you.

Cheers
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

You didn't need to go to the trouble of posting this. Your initialentry would have sufficed. And you and all should be aware that for shop purposes poetic prose will be considered poetry but anybody who changes their assigned prose int poetic prose better do a good job or I'll turn the seldom seen Evil Stan loose on them lol.I am sorry you felt forced to dig up such painful memory just for this but I can see how it could be turned into deeply touching poetry..........stan

author comment

it's not a painful memory - it's just a bit of writing from a book i am writing (slowly)
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Ok .. So I just finished one possible prose .. three paragraphs five sentences each .. it's a story I made up of my new friend, the blue monkey, and how we met .. no rhyming no poetry just a story .. is that acceptable ? need guidance to if I'm doing this correctly

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

I just noticed my names not on the list .. I'm still in, right?

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Sounds like your prose will be fine to post and could easily be turned into a narrative poem. And I must have neglected to hit "save" when I put you on list. Sorry, will rectify now...........stan

author comment

Plain Prose Moon
The moon has been around for eons shining on couples in love, developing waves that washed away sand on the beaches. The moon even kept count of celestial events throughout history. No matter where in the world we live, the moon has a story to tell whether its in nature, man, or beast.

In the beginning God said let there be night and night was formed. With out the moon, night would be no fun. It would be black, bland, and blank. Instead, the moon is brilliant in its glory. Thus its light, millions of light years away, give us poetic inspiration everytime the moon shines.

Sometimes life gets us down, but relaxing in a chair on a deck under the many phases of the moon, soothes the thoughts causing grief. Like a flashlight in a blackout, the moon lights the path of darkness that invades joy and happiness. The moon, myraids of stars, galaxies, and planets out to space was created for our joy here on earth. Think about it, the moon is a ugly black rock when seen from space, but is beautiful in form seen from here where God has his foot stool.

The moon radiating across ocean waters is beauty at its best. Just imagine the sea creatures, coral reefs, whales thousands of years old benefiting from the moon's existence. When I meditate on the beach, watch the moon slowly cross the Atlantic I become mesmeric as the ocean waves takes my troubles out to sea and bring nature to my heart, soul, and mind.

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

Anybody that can't get good poetry out of the moon shouldn't be here lol.................stan

author comment

Me and my poetic prose lol

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

Poetry:-
The burglar eyed the window
where the deed was to be done.
Prose:-
The burglar was a swarthy bloke with black hair and a round ruddy face and he walked with a limp, his clothes were dishevelled and his gait, as he passed along the street, was deliberate and slow as he perused the site where the burglary was to take place.

The day was damp from rain in the night, although the faint sun had begun to colour the park opposite; as the burglar walked along in the same rhythm as the fence palings, he seemed to flicker with them when she looked out of the window through the net curtains.

She didn't know then, that he was a burglar, but becoming curious she opened a crack in the lace and looked hard at him. His swarthy shape draped in an old grey mackintosh looked slightly ominous, he eyed the houses in a particular way, sizing them up, or so it looked to her.

When he suddenly stopped, and was looking straight at her house, she quickly dropped the curtain and stepped back. That face became imprinted on her mind as someone not to speak to, or even to look at.

He had an air of evil, if one can call it that, something mysterious and to be avoided at all costs. He carried a small leather bag over one shoulder which swung from side to side as he lurched in uneven strides, after having stopped, possibly having caught sight of her, he walked more softly, as if coveting a secret and maybe that's exactly what he was doing.

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

I love it !! It was so hard for me to cut back on mine because adjectives are my thing ..
I always wanted to be able to draw and I am not very good
so I, instead, draw pictures with my words .. Im going to just put what I have and see what happens .. I'm a little intimidated being I made it COMPLETELY PLAIN PROSE .. Hope yall like it

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Hmmm.....the hunter who realizes he's beenspotted. Should make for something dark and foreboding.............stan

author comment

WORKSHOP ENTRY
I met a new friend yesterday. I happened to hear a voice unknown to me and got worried . Listening harder , the sound grew louder . Thinking my problems could get no worse , I grab the camera and go into the bathroom .

A sudden urge came over me to take a picture of myself . When I looked at the result my stomach hit the floor . I couldn't believe my eyes . There , wrapped around my neck , was a small blue monkey !!

Relief swept through me . I thought I had gained another voice . After calming down the monkey and detaching it from my inner ear , we introduced ourselves . Now , I have a new friend .

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Preciously you enter the realms of surrealism, in a way,
and yet not, it could however be given that kind of twist.
That is speaking of the prose piece as such.

In my day (haha) we had to have certain elements in each sentence,
making the "listening harder" sentence unexplained.

Just musing on your bit ,not wishing to do other than think around
what you have written here.
Someone is going to have a whale of a time making this into poetry.

Ann.

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

Precious, I thought of you immediately when I read this poem, in Norwegian(!) perhaps you can see what I mean:-

At night all my teeth fall out
I bend over the wash basin and look for them

You stand by the window and look towards me
you look out at the garden
and the dog that stands there and burns in the snow
howls no more
and it snows

you turn towards me and ask: why
is there a dog burning in the garden
and I am about to answer
I lay my hand on my mouth.

Lina Undrum Mariussen.

:) Nordic cloud

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

Beware the monkey of prose lest he lead you to writing short stories lol........stan

author comment

I have the incurable, although entertaining, deep-seeded desire hidden within
to not COMPLETELY give in to this " real world " way of seeing the same thing
in numerous variations of the same thing .. Conformity for the benefit of
saving others from their beliefs never was my strong point ..
If you truely whole-heartedly believe in anything big or small
with enough conviction you can do whatever comes to mind ..

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Greatly enjoyed the prose precious, & love the wicked rebel & reveller I see in all your comments here... Keep it alive & keep feeding it... & feeding it to the world too... We need a bit of mischief & a twinkle eyed myth-maker like you!!!!
I want your prose to poem-ate... I'm just greedy, I'll probably want everyone's!!!!

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

Thank you !! I learned as a child to erase the filter embedded within us all
placed as a muzzle fitting snugly around our spoken words and say the truth as I see it .. for truth really lyes in the perspective of situations in life perceived by any given person

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

I think that automatic writing may be more prose than anything.
I do a lot of writing of that type then have to sort out into verse or poetry maybe verse for me, as my poetry is ??able
Your workshop should bring out some wonderful themes to be transposed into poetic form, well I will read with great interest.
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Hi Ian, I agree, I think it is already bringing about not only more exploration, clarity & creativiety, it is already a bloody romp, this is great huh?

I agree also about the "automatic writing, I do "stream of consciousness" writing as begun years aback from doing Julia Cameron's "The Artists way", must be similar I think, I find I often begin just writing ... what I NOW understand is prose, & it morphs into a poem of either poetic prose, or poetry (as I now understand them). It's always been like that for me, even in my pre-teen years, my journals have islands of "poetic" bits among the waves of "writing" that begins as just plain prose... So far for me, this workshop has clarified the distinction between what Plain prose & poetic prose for me... I never thought of plain writing as prose before. Did you?

Cheers
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

I just recently came to the point in my writing where I have a small say in what I'm writing about !! In younger days I simply grabbed a pen and started doodling trying to fulfill the growing hunger for imagery I guess .. Happy to meet someone I can relate to in that aspect

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Had never thought of much about the forms of Poetry before I joined this site.
I just wrote things on a variety of paper from beer mats lol to being looked after in a posh Cafe.
In the Cafe I was brought pen and paper and of course a candle to see with then they would ask me what I wanted, made a change from true poetry as this was free writing sometimes Philosophy but most times just life.
Now I have become more Spiritual some of my writing goes to the other side and back Prose rules the day.
I am a coward and opt out of poetry form by saying my writing is free verse.
I have thousands of pieces and now My son has given me a web site where I am gradually putting all my works. That's on.... yenti.co.uk but after putting the pieces on there they need sorting out.
I also have 120 ninety minute tapes to transpose to writing those are Sadie's
Diaries and other Spiritual works
I am never going to finish all these tasks as time bites my bum lol.
You take care out there and have fun, Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

I think when somebody writes anything that is meant
to be read or heard by others, it should bring vivid visions along with it .
To be able to close your eyes and watch the story unfold

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Precious, if your above entry is meant to be your prose entry you need to state as much. I gotta go to work now but will return in 6-8 hours to answer you all individually . Thanks for dropping in.......stan

author comment

MY NEW FRIEND was written as my prose .. I should have went with my
story as I usually do but tried to stay as close to what I thought was wanted .. its rather
dull for my taste but hopefully the gag I had to use to make it that way was right .. yes it is my prose

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Hi Precious, I understand the desire to poetify your writing, it reads well though, your prose piece, & you did a good job providing what was requested here I reckon, I had to really put myself in a different place to make sure I wrote a "non poetic" prose, I can relate...

Can I suggest if Stan needs it, you could go back to your Prose & click edit, then give it a heading or lead in intro so Stan is clear that it is the Prose piece you are submitting

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

I'll do that .. is there any chance of filling in the whole story? This is my first workshop ever on poetry or on the internet and would rather not ASSUME to know what I'm doing as far as workshop etiquette ..

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

The main determining factor in the length of submissions in All workshops is to realize that at some point the poem which results will have to be reviewed and analyzed by all paticipants. Much less time consuming to review a shorter work than a long one.

Now many here can probably reduce any of these prose submissions to a Haiku or Rhyku but that wouldn't really fit the shop's purpose lol. So just supply enough to convey your intent...................stan

author comment

I'm just a tad bit slow at times , like now lol,
I will stay with the edited(GAGGED by the words that
are stuck in my throat) version if that will help induce
the freedom to move at a faster pace ..
BUT ...
If time and patience from whomever is assigned
my prose is agreeable I would appreciate the use of
My Me Mine My World prose .. MY NEW FRIEND REWRITE

I really dont mean to be difficult
Just couldn't help myself to show the original prose

Don't misunderstand tho I DID write this spur of the moment
it was not a pre-written story
Maybe , Stan, you could change the longer prose into poetry ...
What do you think?

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

The little boy was examining closely sections of high voltage multi-core cables and bits of PVC He was sure he could make something out of them. Just something. Not a spaceship or robot, just some indefinable something. His dad made things so he knew he could. So he wasn’t paying attention when the honkas attacked.

Honkas came in three kinds, they all looked like pterodactyls but the little ones he hunted and cooked for food, the medium sized ones were aggressive and tried to eat him. The biggest ones could be tamed and took him to the places where the strange folk lived.

It was the medium sized ones this time. They trapped him in the narrow space between the shed and the fence but were too big to get at him. He just had to wait it out. No problem, he’d done it before. Mum or dad would find him and be cranky at him hiding again, but he would be safe.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Honkas huh? Wonder where this came from lol. Somebody will have a lot of leeway with this...........stan

author comment

Well I can see I have my work cut out for me in deciding who will be assigned which prose. While awaiting the last few prose posts I'll go ahead and post mine now :
Today the self-confessed Norwegian killer of seventy seven people described the killings in court.
Anders Breivik stated that the first two murders were the hardest. He said the voices of reason kept saying don't do it. But once he'd killed the first two the killing became almost automatic.

His stated reason for the murders was to protest the easing of immigration policies in Norway which was
allowing the tainting of Norwegian bloodlines. He has also stated in the past that other groups were prepared to follow in his footsteps.

Most of his victims were young attendees of a youth camp. The camp was largely attended by the children
of wealthy people many of whom have governmaent connections. If found guilty he faces a maximum of twenty five years in prison.

Twenty five years for cold blooded murder of seventy seven people. Such is justice in today's Norway.

author comment

The mass murderer of Norway played computer games
for hours and hours every day, it was probably like them to him,
kill everyone in sight. No wonder he found it easy!!!!!
Ann

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

so who gets whose?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I will begin asigning to writer in either 12 hours or after all participants submit their prose posts , whichever comes first. I'm still in hopes that a love based post will appear as I know how much you would like to write a love poem lol...............stan

author comment

It just occured to me that there is nobody to assign a prose post to Me. I don't want it to appear that I've done this for myself by assigning all but the post I'd prefer to use to others. Am open to suggestions on solving this quandry. Maybe put it to a vote and the first repeated prose post voted should be mine?.........I will wait on a response before I begin handing out assignments..........................stan

author comment

just hand them out and take what's left.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Done done it lol. The bad part was poor ol' Wes got stuck with Mine .............stan

author comment

Hi all, wow so much to read above, I have read much, but not all, but feel I should get on with adding my own bits here... so here they are (then I'll finish reading above... exciting though!!!!

On my perspective on poetry Vs prose...

I think my confession that I would like to be better informed on the subject may have been part of the inspiration for the workshop, if not it doesn't matter, most of you here have seen it I think, since it places my ignorance on the issue crudely in the open. Previously I realise I had a loose understanding that PROSE was a longer, more conversational means of communicating an inspiration. I had read long ago, Shakespeare's work described as generally more prose than poetry, with a little poetry throughout, so that was my vague understanding. Poetry being more likely to rhyme traditionally, though in contemporary forms was completely acceptable not rhyming, but with a style that required more pause and placing of lines than general sentences (the works of Esker, or Kailashana are perfect examples for me of pure poetry, without prose & without rhyme... mostly).

Now after far more thought, my understanding matches the description Jess provides so well articulated above, I couldn't put it better, so please refer to his offering above & know that this describes exactly what I now understand to be the distinctions between poetry & prose...

I will add one more thing I feel is VITAL to bring into this discussion, that this workshop has clarified for me, that I was quite ignorant of before, & that is the fact that people actually assign the term PROSE to every day writing such as conversation, letters (regardless of content) & newspaper articles, therefore it is almost critical to make the distinction between POETIC PROSE & PLAIN PROSE. Obviously there is a huge difference & for the sake of clarity it needs to be officially understood & acknowledged (workshop-wise)... For purposes of poetry, or what people generally expect on Neo for exampe, POETIC PROSE is usually included in the generous topic of poetry... PLAIN Prose is not... Please correct me if this is not the case... So now here is my very plain prose peice....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will post separately to save confusion.
Cheers
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

To birth or not to birth
I put myself through an incredible amount of soul searching about whether to have a child or not (I wanted one, but that wasn’t enough). I was astounded how many people just go ahead and have babies with little thought for anything or anyone but themselves. I wondered if any of them had considered what they might really offer their child, or whether the world really needed another human being. I plunged into parenthood after I had confidently answered the questions I thought most relevant to his wellbeing… Would he know he was completely loved, and would there be a good probability that he would contribute something really worthwhile to this world.

I wish more people would put more thought into the process and consequences of birthing and raising a child. Technically, parenting is a more important undertaking than most university degrees prepare one for. Ethically this would never be proposed and probably shouldn’t be either. But perhaps the ethics and realities of parenting should at least be considered in school?

It could be argued that the creativity so often expressed by artists (including writers) who were trying to work through the childhood complications are a gift to the world also. There will always be aberrations, and happy mistakes, mismatches and adversity. However, if just “a lot more of us” considered our actions in this regard… imagine?

___________________________________________________________

Cheers Anni (Cloudthings)

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

I think this to be really good plain prose.

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

Thanks Barbara, I enjoyed yours too, am looking forward to this transforming thing too, yours would also be a lovely one to play with. I had to go into "work communication" mode to keep it from being poetic... it feels too dull to be here on Neo, but I think, that's what is required so there it is... I hope it isn't a challenge to create as poetry, I tried to cover varied perspectives so it could be embraced by most, or at least offered a foothold to an open mind.

Looking at others, I can't help feeling I could make it easier by making it about something less personal (& more succinct... sigh!)... STAN! IF YOU WOULD LIKE, IT PROBABLY WOULDN'T TAKE LONG TO PUT A LESS PERSPECTIVE DRIVEN PIECE UP... PLEASE LET ME KNOW!

Cheers
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

This will do fine....prose : The well inked letters you have duly decided to place upon the snow white parchment will doublessly do......poetic prose..................stan

author comment

Heh, I love your playful comments... beautifully formed... & on a serious note, you have confused me... I would definitely call what I wrote PLAIN prose... are you suggesting it is poetic prose???? I tried so hard to keep it non-poetic!!!!! erghhh! But perhaps you were referring to your own pretty sentences above as an example of poetic prose... hope so! Phew,Cheers
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

Did not mean to confuse you. I just put my reply in both forms to help clarify the difference........stan

author comment

Yeah, got that eventually... duh! Off to a slow start today.... Have posted 3 versions in rough draft form called Sherry & the scoundrel in the stream... already want to change stuff, so that's a good start! Gotta get to work now.
Cheers
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

stan, it would be interesting if we all had the same piece of prose, except of course, the one who wrote it, even then, they would have the same task? Precious has a good unusual one. So have the others, we look forward to the result. Ann.

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

If the number of participants was a bout half of what's here we could do that. All I'd have to do is specify what poetry form each person submitted and that would show a variety of poetic differences. But as things stand at this stage I will use all prose submissions. There is a bit of leeway in this shop so perhaps if we complete the poetry submissions and critiques in time, We could each choose a poem to rewrite in another poem. Still haven't received any votes on which prose post I should change into poetry lol...........stan

author comment

I can't fight myself any longer !! This is how the story is originally suppose to be told but
edited(GAGGED) my writing to do my best at conforming my thoughts for the workshop.
I hope I don't offend anyone by telling the story as I see it but my tongue hurts from biting it
so here I go

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Methodically wandering through my day I suddenly
became aware of an uninvited , unknown voice ringing deep within
my head . I thought my sanity COMPLETELY failed me and
led me down the " well beyond functional " path to crazy . I knew
there was no room for yet another formless voice to take residency
inside ME , my "crazies" wouldn't allow that to happen , so further
investigation was deemed necessary . Grabbing my handy - dandy
camera , I rush frantically into the bathroom .

The over-powering urge to look in the mirror sent
frightening thoughts of Bloody Mary racing through my every
thought . Instead of giving in to the consuming pressure to
look , I took a picture of myself . I enjoy snapping candid
shots of life thru my eyes and happen to be the most entertaining
person I know so alot of these pictures are of moi . I brace myself
for what is to come and finally look .

Briefly , a sigh of relief passes across my lips followed by the
horrifying clarity of what my eyes have just seen . Gratefull for
having proof of an outside owner to this faceless voice, I quickly
turn to review what cannot be true . There , wrapped securely
around my neck , is a small blue monkey and he's whispering sweet
hot stinky breath in my face !! EEEWWWW !!! I try to pry it
loose but then it began trying to burrow into my skull through my
ear !! I want to speak to the manager of this establishment to
inform them of their monkey infestation .

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

While we await William Saint George, Wesley Snow, and China Blue to post their prose I will go ahead and make assignments for those who already have. In the event your assigned author has posted more than one prose subject, please use his/her newest post. You may change your assignment into Any poetry form and are free to do minor editing in the event the prose post is deemed overlong. When you have completed your poem please post it on stream and include the original prose form below it. It will also be left up to you to provide a title. ALSO don't forget to include (prose to poetry) in title to make it easier for us to spot. As an aside I guess I will assign myself the last prose which gets posted. Now here are your assignments which were determined by random draw of names from a cereal bowl lol :
Cat (Candlewitch) your assignment is Anni's prose post(Cloudthings)
judyanne your assignment is Jess's prose post (weirdelf)
Mark your assignment is Precious' prose post (Preciouslyset)
Barb (barbara Writes) your assignment is Ann's prose post (Nordic Cloud)
Jess (weirdelf) your assignment is Barb's prose post (Barbara Writes)
Anni (Cloudthings) your assignment is Cat's prose post (Candlewitch)
Precious (Preciouslyset) your assignment is Mark's prose post
Ann (Nordic cloud) your assignment is judyanne's prose post

So ya'll grag those quills and let's see what the ink pot yields. If you have questions or I left anything out just holler my way..............stan

author comment

Are we to take their exact words and break them in a way as to create a rhythm which creates poetry? or do we just use their prose idea and turn it into poetry/

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Good question, I had just assumed the latter & will run with that unless I hear otherwise.

Also CAN'T FIND THE WORKSHOP CODE WE ARE SUPPOSED TO SUBMIT?... HELP?
Cheers
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

There is a code to put in ? I'm completely lost
This is my very first workshop and really don't
know much about anything ..
Damsel in distress help too!

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

if nyones still awake and online that could clarify a few things I could
really use the help .. didn't think of it until sitting down to write it lol

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

I gotta go to work, midday here, but I ignored the code & clicked on the workshop option below it (when you post your poem you'll see it as you scroll down to submit), that should do I reckon, don't fret about anything, there is no reall "wrong" way to do it, stuff can always be changed...
Go to bed girl ... grin!!!
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

I can still vividly recall sleep ..
Now it is only something I daydream about :)
No, I think what is needed is some serious writing
Thank you for your help .. Will try to keep my questions
down to a bare minimum but I think I have it now
thanx again

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

The poem should ideally be a paraphrase of the prose but does not need to follow it line for line. And when you submit it go to the bottom of the submission form where you will find a bar labeled Workshop. When you hit this it will list all workshops underway and all you have to do is choose Prose to Poetry. And don't forget to also post the prose form when you post the poem.This will help all(not just shop members) compare the two and come up with better commentary .. Hope that takes care of your questions. 11:40 PM here, I'm headed to bed but will check in again in about 8-9 hours............stan

author comment

Dick knew where it was going to moment the Akita and his young handler arrived at class. He was confident the dog weighed one hundred twenty pounds while the boy, all of twelve years old, wouldn’t tip the scales at ninety. The mother and her son had wanted a Labrador; daddy wanted a “man’s” dog.
What they got was trouble.
And now, just as he had anticipated, Dick was “hanging” the dog. He had no idea how badly hurt the boy was, but he could hear the sirens in the distance. His attention was solely on his personal stamina. He had seen Bill Koehler, his father, do this several times and all of them ended badly. He knew what was required and faced it with the same stubborn determination his famous father always had.
Without a weapon no man could hope to best the dog and in truth, as angry as he was at the parents who let this happen, he had no desire to harm the animal. The tools he had were all he needed, a choke chain, leash and nerve, as the dog tore into his forearms and chest. He focused on his breathing and his rapidly depleting strength. Should he waver and drop the dog before it passed out, Dick would likely die this night.
At last, after what seemed an eternity holding the Akita as high as possible at the end of a leather leash, the dog faltered. It was suffocating, but not fast enough for Dick when suddenly a hand gripped his shoulder and both dog and Dick were lowered to the ground.
The animal would suffer no ill effects and the man would heal in time, but as soon as Dick could hold his arms above his head again “daddy” would learn just what “hanging a mad dog” is all about.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

No problem.I know your plate is pretty full right now. As soon as others get their prose posted I'llassign you one to turn to poetry............stan

author comment

Well it looks like this will take a bit of thought before I can turn this into decent poetry. Now I don't feel quite so bad about Your assignment lol.........stan

author comment

Hi, Cat after working with your prose & reading another, it occurred to me that the piece I wrote was not only too long (as Stan pointed out), but also probably really difficult to work with because it is of a subject that could be very contentious & possibly even difficult for some, so given that Stan asked me to reduce the length of the sentences, I have also penned a piece of prose, far less based on opinion & easier to play with...

I came to the realisation that when offering something up for purposes such as these, it was better to remove elements of possible personal conflict and abrasiveness... This should be much more fun to adapt to poem, I believe one couldn't argue that it is plain prose, but it very easily lends itself to transformation to poetic prose & then poem state.
______________________________________________________________________________

When I sit on a verandah in the autumn afternoon, watching the leaves glow chrimson or saffron bright in the late, rich sunlight, I wonder what it is that makes our hearts echo that glow so deeply?

Sitting in my back room, writing letters to a friend, long absent, playing “artist in residence” in Korea, I gaze out my big window to get lost in the swaying, shifting mass of gum leaves against the sky. Again, mesmerized and somehow fulfilled and inspired by the interplay of tree and weather.

Perched beneath the weathered stumps of old steps leading down from the dunes to the beaches constant, rhythmically shifting waters, I cannot resist the trance-like state that overwhelms my senses, "siren-like", I vaguely consider. In the end, there is no point in knowing why, it is a gift that nature brings us meditation in such a natural way.

Hope this is better
Cheers
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

Thank you very much. I shall get to work on it now.

always, Cat

*
When someone reads your work
And responds, please be courteous
And reply in kind, thanks.

Yep, I surprise myself that I should have been so blind to the influence of the actual prose itself... this should be far more appropriate, far less distracting so you can get on with the actual task... My pleasure Cat, I do apologise for the oversight... Just wrote what was on my mind after a conversation with Wes... More care was needed & I have learned from that... always a good thing to learn from a mistake.

Anni xx

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

I have a sure test of whether poetry is prose, and vicerversa, and the same test works for poetic prose, just for bits of it, not all of it.

What really intrigues me here is seeing the process in action.

And shutting up the silly argument about poetry vs prose. Some fairly good poetry contains prosaic elements but in the end if there is not a difference there is no reason for the words. Otherwise

adult aeroplane air aircraft
carrier airforce airport album
alphabet apple arm army baby
baby backpack balloon banana bank

is poetry.

Consider the word pluralism, it is a kind of linguistic nihilism, it says everything is ok and not ok. Which is why I took such exception to Ann's long research. We are looking for valid terms we can use.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I've literally heard poets read poetry such as the list you made here & everyone respect it as a radical form of poetry.... Why should it not be if "I wanna kill you" is?... (totally misquoted, I'm sure) not being a pig here, you know what I mean... The problem is, ultimately there is NO definitive definition for poetry because it is "art" & there will always be someone who wants to make sure they shake up & even remove any boundaries around art (hence the list of words being accepted, I suspect it was a statement of sorts at the time... "YOU can't dictate to me what poetry is... see!!!" is what was being said - in some cases)... However, I do agree that what we are doing in this workshop is actually trying to get a better understanding of what we can agree on as a definition in practice.

I don't think the arguments are silly, I think there is much to learn, I think you add brilliantly to that with your input.

Also, one thing I really came face to face with that really gave me the shits was this... the first poem I wrote from the prose I had, was a rhyming one... I didn't submit it as the final choice because - by your very definition, it was prose - it rhymed, but it was a story that rhymed & fitted into neat sentences etc. So I bloody thought... no way! (I posted it in a response to Judy in the comments under "Sherry & the Scoundrel", I think you'll see what I mean, you couldn't dispute that it was poetry, it rhymes & has metre etc. but to me, it was a story that would work in grammatical context if you put it in sentence form)... after reading your definition, which I felt happy to take on, it made sense to me, I couldn't accept that poem here in the workshop...

Cheers
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

you are making them stronger. I read your comment vividly, and it was great.

Of course I disagree with a lot of it [grins]. I would like to settle on the idea that words having meaning, and words that describe poetry have meanings, that some of us might agree on, sometimes, when convenient [grins]
cheeers
Jess

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Well, I agree, we just need to settle on what WE define as poetry & prose here, I get the feeling you are a born subversive though Jess & would be one of the first to fight fiercely for your right to develop your own definition of art.

That grin is a killer Jess, I'm sure it has allowed you to "smoothe" out of many a confrontation that might otherwise have been trouble... Your catch line says it all though doesn't it, that isn't my definition of a poet, but am fine with a polar opinion (for me it MAY be a small part of it, but not the focus)

Cheers ... this time for sure I am off to read other prose to poetry submissions now!

Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

In my limited opinion the afore mentioned pluralism is ruining poetry. It is this exact acceptance of Anything being poetry which brought me back to writing after a 40 year hiatus. Poetry should be a thing of beauty (even when dealing with that which is not beautiful) and, often, inspiration. To an extent I blame the academics for this "all is good" crap. I think too many of them have allowed standards to disappear in order to increase enrollment in their classes. Anything Worthwhile Takes Effort. "Roses,runways,radicals and rape" is Not poetry, it's just random words beginning with the same letter. And standing before a crowd yelling meaningless invective is not poetry.
And reading most newpaper articles is not reading poetry. THAT'S what this shop is about. Determining the differences between plain prose (regardless of the form its in) and true poetry regardless if the forn IT'S in. I am no expert god knows, but even I can usually tell the difference. It's specifying the differences which can be tough.....end of rant; onward with shop lol

author comment

Just for the record, again, I agree, that's why I love Neo so much, because we strive to make these definitions for ourselves & clarify & refine our poetry, but I don't feel I can dictate what others see as poetry or art or food taste or even politics (despite having pretty firm opinion on these).

As I said, the thing here is to clarify for those of us who do want to have clear definitions in order to refine our understanding & skills as writers... Not arguing that strings of words is good poetry, just making the point that art will always have fuzzy edges in the main, it should be a right to determine our own perspective, but it doesn't ,mean we all have to live with such loose boundaries... That's why we are here.

Stupid thing to run with in the end, but there it is, not more unworthy of consideration that much else I can't help feeling some regret at even mentioning it now, Reminds me of that wonderful line from Richard Bach "Argue for your limitations & sure enough they're yours", guess I offered a perspective just to highlight a point & it has become a flag that I'd never be happy to carry.

Cheers
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

Due to personal reasons China Blue has dropped out of shop. Willian St, George has gone missing. Therefore the last 2 assignment are Wesley Snow, you are stuck with my prose submission. Scribbler now will use Wesley Snow's prose submission.
Everybody is doing well so let's keep this thing rolling...............stan

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Cool. If I'm going to destroy a painting, I'd rather it be Rembrandt than Picasso. Now, since I'm not thinking too clearly these days- what is the first sentence, so I can recognize it when I find it? It's here with everyone else's right? For whatever reason I can't recall reading it. I gotta get some rest. wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

"well I can see I'm going to have my work cut out for me...." dated 4-21. When you wait so long to post Yours you get stuck with This lol............stan

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I'm not quiet clear on the exact reasons of why the FORM of something somebody writes are sounding more important than the words and the story ?

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

I think you might have hit the nail on the head as far as a person's preferred poetic form. It may well be that someone that has or seeks an orderly life/world would tend toward more order in his/her writing than a person who embraces change/chaos................stan

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I've been trying to explain that in less that 500 words for two years now. You are going to see your comment popping up (verbatim... I mean copy and paste, brother) all over this website until I die and leave this poor place behind.
Thank you Mark. I owe you.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Other than exploring that whether something is poetry or simple prose(often chopped up and disguised as poetry) It DOESN"T matter which poetic form is used in transforming the prose submission to poetry. Indeed I Encourage the use of different forms here in order to show the wide range of differences................stan

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Written word is beautiful for the simplicity of holding enough VALUE to the writer, reader, or whomever may hear about it ... We, as a society-based culture, tend to overly indulge in the debate of agreeing but disagreeing to agree ... Judgement being passed based on the "HOW" instead of the "WHY" is the devastating effect of having too much thought given to "PROPER" ways of doing things ... Why is that ? Is that much importance REALLY given to proper punctuation or proper form ? Understanding the MEANING of what is written would be more appreciated/ appropriate over the pointed-out misgivings of a failed proper education.

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

In writing a certain amount of proper form and such is Required in order to convey thoughts and feelings in an accurate manner. Doesn't matter what one's thoughts are if they aren't stated in a form which does this..........stan

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I completely agree !! In any type of communication(even smoke signals lol) some kind of
beginning ... middle ... end form is needed in conveying rational thoughts which can be processed, understood .. Anything more than that is just like putting waaay too
much make-up on an already beautiful woman, glamming it up without a reason ..
the words used and the story told is whats makes it what it is .. in my opinion ;^)

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

from Barbara's prose. Very daunting to me, as anyone who knows me will tell.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I would suggest ruthlessly paring the prose back to it's barest bones and meaning and then writing the poem from scratch.

Too many of them seem to be awfully close to prose versifications of the original.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I think too many are trying to retain every tiny nuance of the prose instead of taking the main message and running with it................stan

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we just agreed!

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

And they said it could never happen lmao...............stan

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That sort of thing can give a guy vertigo. wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

I'm re-examining my life values, meaning, philosophies and considering joining Scientology.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

That's a bit how I did at first one wishes to keep every nuance of meaning present, but a perfectly good poem could be written using it as inspiration, it not that easy, specially some of the other prose-s, peotising someone else's prose either, slightly foreign, I got a poetic one, I didn't se that judyanne had written another one later.

You've gone and got me writing, perhaps its you, I wrote a long intro for a book and have since written much more, it all began in the MIDDLE f the night, and I am not sure of the plot yet, its so exciting going along with it like reading someone else's book, I don't have a clue what will happen next, so exciting I say again!!!! I shall have to come back to it when I am 'literally' sober, and rewrite it of course, but at the moment its like a running stream. :)
Its called: "The Mirror, the Girl and the Portrait."

Tee hee Ann.

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

'A prose writer gets tired of writing prose, and wants to be a poet. So he begins every line with a capital letter, and keeps on writing prose.'
-Samuel McChord Crothers

and
'Poetry has the virtue of being able to say twice as much as prose in half the time, and the drawback, if you do not give it your full attention, of seeming to say half as much in twice the time.'
-Christopher Fry

but the one i like best
'Poetry is a lot of things to a lot of people. Perhaps the characteristic most central to the definition of poetry is its unwillingness to be defined, labelled, or nailed down. ... Don't shackle poetry with definitions. It doesn't like your definitions,because defining poetry is like grasping at the wind - once you catch it, it's no longer wind.'

cheers
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Love these!!! Our phone line snapped so have had no internet for a few days, much to catch up on!

xx Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

I still haven't heard from all the participants on my piece!

thanks, Cat

*
When someone reads your work
And responds, please be courteous
And reply in kind, thanks.

Not to worry, my little attempt is not well visited either. Don't let others' tardiness bother or slow you down, just assume they found it to be perfect as is lol..........stan

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They have only just repaired our phone line (no internet for a few days), so I will be back right after work to read & comment... excited!
Anni

Cheers
Anni

My dear friend always told me "Water the seeds of joy first"

Nothing like a computer problem to mess up a good day. We'll await with baited breath (and disliking that worm taste lol) on getting your feed back...............stan

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WE ARE SUPPOSED TO WRITE A PROSE POST THEN A POEM ON AN ASSIGNED POST AND THEN GIVE COMMENTARY TO THESE POEMS, I"M YELLING IN CASE YOU MIGHT MISS THIS LMAO!...I had been wondering where you were...........stan

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I have been under pressure in various areas in my life and dont want
anyone to think i under-appreciate this workshop
I DONT
but i may need to take a few days to get my personal life more in order to
insure my undivided attention to what im doin
this was what i came up with hope u all enjoy

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

This is just a past time after all. So I realize that priorities are in real life. Take as much time as you need and we'll still be here lol........stan

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