Join the Neopoet online poetry workshop and community to improve as a writer, meet fellow poets, and showcase your work. Sign up, submit your poetry, and get started.

where can a poet go? (Shark Workshop 2 ~ Deep analysis of poetry)

what if i wanted to write poetry
and offered alms to the poet?

give me a few words or give me
poetic death,
stasis is not a state of mind
nor the gist of things
like stingers on a scorpion
shaken from swaggering boots
in the morning,
or a bumble bee,
neither too
too yellow or too black
to carry its full weight,

forgive me for being where I'm
not wanted,
or being who I am,
I'm an American Outlaw
a stone's throw from
royalty and deeper than dirt
in my own shit,
just don't carry me home
unless you decide to
scrape the bottom of your own life.

Last few words: 
(Just remember the analysis is on the poem, not the poet! LOL)
Editing stage: 

Comments

for me..the Title "Where does a poet go?" is a nice curtain raiser to the gist of your write which created for me an image of a poet at a cross roads..in a hiatus..unsure of which path to tread...

i will read more of the rest and try to read in between the lines too to get a good grasp of where you are leading us to in this write...

raj (sublime_ocean)

This seems to be a very personal write, most are, no matter the content,
but this one ... hmmm.

Great title, alluring to readers, especially here on a poetry site. For me,
this is a poetic declaration, a refusal to submit to the stasis. The last stanza
is particularly strong, but add's the "you", not sure who the you is in this poem,
but I do like it.

The first line; what if I wanted to write poetry (present tense, first person)
and offered alms to the poet (offered is past tense)
alms here is an interesting choice, to me, in this case, it is an almost
religious offering, but to yourself?

I'll have to come back to this after reading it a few more times,
enjoyed the read Anna, thanks for posting it for the pool.

Richard

Too tired to comment on other than structure which seems to scream for a line break in a few places. Will return later for deeper anna lysis lol.........stan

Nice write
I too will be back for more reading
I see a few of what I think this workshop is looking for here
Will read more and comment later

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

However I think it could be improved with thought to the structure of it, perhaps try to make the stanzas even-ish (you have 23 lines, so it’s can’t be done perfectly, or as you’ve done one small starting stanza and two longer ones).

I think the line ‘nor the gist of things’ could be cut as it is between two very precise things and seems vague in the context of the poem, and it also breaks your flow and internal rhythm.

‘in the morning,/or a bumble bee,’ I think these lines need to be separated by enjambment as the second is very powerful but underwhelmed by the previous line.

Cut the ‘too’s from yellow and black, they are redundant and repetitive making the line weak. Cut ‘or being who I am’ it is redundant and again shadows the excellence of the next line.

I think the first line of your poem should be the title and the first line of the poem being: ‘What if I offered alms to the poet?’

Cut ‘I am’ from the American Outlaw line, it’s unnecessary.

Another thing I think we have to address is your use of punctuation, you need to be consistent: either have it or don’t. I think your poem would benefit from full punctuation, so a comma when needed, full stop and capital letters. It helps the reading and flow of your poem knowing when to pause; it helps the lines stand by themselves as clauses and rise to their full potential. You have some amazing lines in this poem hidden away or brushed over because of your lack of punctuation.

The first stanza needs reworking or to be cut into two different stanzas, also never end a line with ‘and’ or ‘or’ as it disrupts the imagery and flow of the line, always have it the next (the one it’s referring to).

My last structural point being that I think you need to rework the last line, make it punchier. You build up this amazing imagery and emotion, and we’re constantly anticipating the climax and it’s never delivered. Perhaps be more literal with the last line, you use a lot of imagery and (beautiful) metaphor throughout the entire poem, to make the last line stand out I think you need to juxtapose or contrast this with a literal last line.

Anyway those are my structural suggestions and comments. Now onto symbolism, association and imagery!

Your symbolism of the bumble-bee is amazing! Probably my favourite lines in the whole poem, but I see it definitely as symbolism not imagery. The bee in this poem seems like the ideal creative process, with an even amount of inspiration (or Plato’s divine madness) and discipline (the editing, revising etc.). Does this make the bumble bee the perfect poet? I get the sense of that, something so unattainable that we (all poets) constantly want to grasp and set our bar to, yet it’s almost impossible. Usually I would say sterile too, (because one of a poet’s main talents is knowing when to break or abide by the rules they’ve set for themselves or former poet’s have set) but the bumble bee is a fertile thing: carrying the pollen from flower to flower. I love this double reading or paradox in this particular symbol. This is my reading into the bumble bee lines, perhaps it might give you something you hadn’t consciously realised while writing so you can extend on or refine your idea of the bumble bee. Although as I said, the lines are beautiful and acceptable as they are.

Your choice of the phrase ‘American Outlaw’ is great, and holds very strong associations of the underdog and again the previous idea of the bumble bee restraint and inspiration (also the balance between breaking and abiding by rules). It is an awesome association that develops and furthers your bumble bee metaphor/symbol perfectly and concisely.

Your imagery is very good—you have a good control over your description and know how to be both unsympathetic, yet empathetic, in your word choice ( a very hard feat to master!). However I still think this line ‘like stingers on a scorpion’ could be more powerful and improved upon, it’s a good line, but not as strong as the rest you have in your poem. I’ll let the others discuss this line with you as at the moment I can’t think of a recommendation to offer in its stead.

This is a terrific poem that is hidden under some structural issues. Below I’ll put the reformatted poem so you can get a feel of what it would look and sound like with punctuation, some altered line-cutting, more stanzas and without redundant words and phrases.

Well-done!

______

What if I offered alms to the poet?
Give me a few words
or poetic death.

Stasis is not a state of mind,
like stingers on a scorpion
shaken from swaggering boots
in the morning,

or a bumble bee,
neither too
yellow or black
to carry its full weight.
Forgive me for being
where I'm not wanted:

The American Outlaw
a stone's throw from
royalty and deeper than dirt
in my own shit.

Don't carry me home
unless you decide to
scrape the bottom of your own life.

I have read this 6-8 times over a period of time. This strikes me as a poem constructed to contain as many examples of techniques used in writing as possible. Imagery-check, symbolism-check, association-check, reference-check, subtext-undetermined. This poem contains so much but it is jarring in the way it switches from one thing to another in mid stanza. If it has an overall subtext it seems to be lost in the jumble of techniques which are themselves presented in a disjointed manner. I know disjointment can be used to add emphasis but if that is the intent here, in my opinion it is over used. Now of course all this is from a person who freely admits that I am not much of a free verse writer myself. But I still think some structural changes and some smoothing out would improve this poem as it Does have a lot of good lines............stan

Will everyone please re-read the syllabus

In particular-
In this workshop each participant will submit a poem which the other participants will firstly attempt to describe/summarise as simply as possible the literal meaning. The comparisons will be revealing.
and
please do not post intent until every participant has been given the chance to arrive at their own conclusions based on the poem itself. Also please do not edit your poem until everyone has given feedback, or we will be commenting on different poems!

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I read the syllabus, Jess and have refrained from commenting. However, Stan, I wrote this very early Saturday morning....as a response to a poet on another poetry site.

That's quite a leap you made there...to insinuate that I threw something together for the sake of the workshop. You must rarely if ever read my poems.

~A

author comment

Actually read most of your poems. Did not think you really threw this together for this shop, just thought it read that way as there are so few connections to join the lines.............stan

and read everyone's comments first. And just as well, saved me some time, Michelle said it all.

Love the poem, its depth and integrity, would love to see it worked on a bit. Also love the allusion to the "fact" that it is impossible for bumblebees to fly. (Did you know that it is also impossible for kangaroos to jump? They would have to consume 10 times their bodyweight of grass each day to produce the energy to travel as they do)

OK, your replies, Anna? Before we move on?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Having read and having waited to see who else was going to comment... taking Michelle's crit into evaluation, I will edit the poem, bearing in mind, that the reason I write poetry is that I never second-guess my muse, and I don't expect perfection though it appears on every occasion at least in the thought which originates the poem, and the creation of it, in which I am integral.

The poem itself is subject to criticism.

~A

author comment

A joy for sure.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Almost want to start off this commentary by shielding myself behind a word play on your title viz. WHERE DOES THE CRITIC GO? I have to confess up front that I am hopeless at sticking to the syllabus, so I will merely attempt to give you some of my subjective impressions, based purely on the 'tone' as I read it.
As the others have said, a seductive title that draws the reader in. The tone is provocative more than defensive and reeks of a TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT attitude, endemic of the modern poet. "I am an American outlaw....just don't carry me home unless you decide to scrap the bottom of your on life". I find this a little too effrontery, and suspect that I won't be taking this one home. Your muse is not mine, and you must indeed answer to her, so be it! No slight intended.
GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH, (Patrick Henry 1775) is the line that springs to mind from your "GIVE ME A FEW WORDS OR GIVE ME POETIC DEATH". Could be just coincidental but that's the same Implicit struggle that I sensed. Life or death!
Thanks Anna
Boni

Bonitaj

Hi Boni, Good analysis, spot on as a matter of fact.

In the modern world, it seems folks have lines drawn in the sand, where our house of cards is built. Art is taking a nose dive in schools by limited budgets allocated to children's needs and concerns. I recently read horrific statistics of the numbers of kids that live on the street with their parents but go to *school*. What an education! Governmental abuse of its citizenry while corporations are still making obscene profits by taking business to countries where workers are getting peanuts. There are those who would repeal the minimum wage and cite that that would encourage new jobs. Well, you can have two people working for $7/hr (or less) instead of one at $14/ (I wonder how the power brokers would live on that?) Of course, the xtra money would be *profit* two workers would never be hired. Why, if one were doing the job adequately?. It's been that way for a long time, less workers are doing more work....carrying more workloads. Don't even complain.... there are 3 people waiting behind you. Take it or leave it,

I digress. The poem in its affrontery, would speak to those who demand compliance, never
having examined their own values and systems of evaluation. There's also a pun on the American *cowboy* mentality that lives for its weapons...too often used on innocents when the cowboy goes loco.

Thanks for the read. Of course, your muse if mine, it's just a different day today, and we happen to wear different faces, you and I. We forget what it is that makes us human....the parts of us that make life worthwhile.

~A

author comment

Anna...i knew that this write has a lot of abstractness in it...but wasn't able to connect with its essence....reading your elaboration i\gives me a feeling of the mist lifting and clearing the way to see what lies beyond....pheeeew i applaud not just your prowess but the essence of this write which is truly an attention getter to what is happening...

raj (sublime_ocean)

I'm not sure whether it was time to explain your poem yet. But having done so I'll now add my penney lol. Anytime I write a poem in which I have to go to great lengths to explain its meaning I believe I have written poorly. You know, I read this one more than twice looking for the secondary level of message intended and had trouble even garnering the Primary message. I hardly consider myself even close to being an expert at reading or writing poetry but I think that I may have become a bit above a novice at both. So now comes the old question : Do we write for the general poetry reader or for other poets and those well versed or educated in poetry. If for the majority of the public readers, I think your poem is Too obscure. If written for only others well versed in reading poetry and expecting secondary meanings , In my opinion, It's still pretty obscure. I will now prepare myself to be bombarded with incredulation at how dense I must be to have had trouble with this write lol..........stan

i do agree with you that Anna's write is abstract...but then the very theme/syllabus of this workshop had made me expect contributions which would be abstract in nature and one would need to read between the lines (what is perhaps meant by "layers") to understand the hidden meaning...it is nice to hear you say that you are no more a novice and it reflects in the write you have posted in this workshop...

to make a long story short...i believe the various gradation in pools is made to allow everyone to judge one's strengths and decide on the level which they feel suits them and also gives an opportunity for members to graduate to the next level....

raj (sublime_ocean)

Ha! Tit for tat then, Stan. I found your poem to have no layers and had to read everything into it. As a matter of fact, I found no layers, had it not been for Raj (?) who seemed to comprehend it immediately.

But do me a favour, just make sure, when you step in your own shit, you recognize it. I do (recognize my own shit).

LOL.

~A

author comment

Did not mean to step in anybody's shit. Just thought you would appreciate my being honest. You know I DID admit the fault might be in my reading. You know, I read about everything you post. The reason I don't always comment is because often I don't understand what you are trying to convey. Again, it is quite possibly my shortcoming and not yours. If you took my above comment as a retaliation for your not understanding or seeing the secondary level in the poem I posted you are mistaken. I like to think I'm not that petty. Perhaps we just write at opposite ends of the spectrum and only on occasion do we understand each others work. Please take it as the truth that my comment was not meant to offend..................................................stan

Please allow me to 'come between' you as a mediator of sorts, since I opened this 'can of worms'. I am not passing judgement on either of you, a) but rather attempting to comment on RESPONSES to a piece of work b) your KNEEJERK reaction to 'the other's response. Here I speak more as a psychologist, than a poet when I say - "The core of anger is inner psychic pain or hurt". Anna, I hear what Stan is saying here, not because I side with him, but because it is his "right" to express/offer critique - as he sees it. To pro-offer anything less, would be hypocritical. I think you'll agree that he has done it in as polite a manner as possible, and if I refer you back to my earlier definition - your retaliation is perhaps inappropriately harsh.
From my side, I must thank you for the humility you portrayed, in responding to my meager offering. For me it says a lot about you as a person, but viz-a-viz the poem - it helps considerably, to have a BACKDROP with which to view the poem. Look how much more insight we have to the poems of BLAKE's "Rose thou art sick" or WORDSWORTH "The world is to much with us" when we can know the ZEITGEIST. Fortunately for us, you are alive and can deliver your own reasons for what motivated the write, rather than waiting for some collegiate inference as to what was meant

Bonitaj

I have not qualms with Stan. We are friends. We just see things differently. It's what makes Stan Stan and me me.

fa so la ti do.

~A

author comment

Analyzing my self-analysis in this poem:

I don't always understand another's poetry. But something resonates on a deeper level of my awareness that I may not be cognizant of yet. That's what good poetry does, it makes one aware of deeper feelings, not always able to be vocalized, but recognized in a poem. Since
we all adhere to the thought that *I am a Poet*, here, it is at once a challenge to us, to allow ourselves to be in that *unknown-ness*, to allow the words to filter through the channel of
connectedness we are and wish to be, in our heart of hearts.

Nothing feels as good as to make a connection with/to a person place or thing. It's what
inspires us, motivates us, completes us as humans and allows us to peek at our divinity.

Boni, you may not have wanted this sort of analysis, you may have wanted an explanation of my poem...however, I can only be true to myself, I can never be true to any one else's expectations of me, or my poetry.

The dime stops here.

~A

.

~A

~A

author comment

not that everyone need agree in intent or purpose. Me, I won't challenge an outlaw of the spirit.

Let's all go back to the the Deep Analysis page for final comments and feedback on the workshop.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

This is a really good write
I see a poet stuggles in this piece to be his/her choice of poet. The poet looks for acceptence to the nature of self.and not what another may think is more approperiate
I may be off in my understanding of your intent here, but
Either way this is a good poem as usual coming from you

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

There are some here who think Anna and I were fighting. This is untrue. Almost from the first time we conversed here we have been "sparing" but always wind up laughing at each others' misunderstandings. It is almost like we're from different planets sometimes .Hm..... might be that she's a damned Yankee and I'm a cussed Rebel lmao...........stan

(c) Neopoet.com. No copyright is claimed by Neopoet to original member content.